manual vs dsg

[damov]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRwfvnDt7BA&feature=player_embedded

[Cam]

Saw that a few weeks ago
:)

Even though its not MKVI, this video is really good as well


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4HpD5K6Qws&feature=related

[CJ9999]

For me the decision to go DSG was very easy.
Manual was never a consideration.
All the benefits of an automatic in city driving, plus better performance and ecomomy as well - a no-brainer.

[Justin Fox]

Great vids!

[random]

If you asked me this question a few years back, i would definitely say manual, but now.. the dsg? it is an amazing piece of technology. Especially living in sydney, where there are so much traffic, and the performance of the dsg is just amazing.

In saying that, manual is still really fun to drive. But for me? 60:40... only for cars with the double clutch gearbox, if not i would still go manual

[danielb]

Personally I found driving the dsg gave me a feeling of detachment from the car. I was amazed with it initially, then bored! Ordered the manual as the car isn't my daily, plus my partner has an auto if I'm feeling lazy :)

[saad]

I live in canberra, so i chose the manual. Even in sydney I may have chosen the manual too. DSG is AMAZING, but i like the feeling of changing gears and the engagement. I remember when I first learned to heel-toe, and the first time I did it, it was amazing feeling. My friends would say to me "saad, how did you do that so smoothly" as we would go into a turn.

Getting the GTI i had to relearn a bit, due to the drive by wire system, but now, i still get shivered everytime I nail a downshift. Its harder on the track cos theres so much to think about, but I do it on every corner on the streets, as you can never be too good, and it makes driving fun on the street.

Yes DSG is faster, but there are a lot of cars faster than the GTI, so outright speed is not my main concern. It's about the driving experience, refined with a bit of fun thrown in.

If I could afford 2 cars, my daily would be DSG, and fun car manual. But even if I ever were to buy a Golf R, it would be manual too.

I think its very sad that new Ferraris dont come with manual boxes anymore

[Mr_Bob]

Saad, that's exactly my opinion on the matter too.
I learnt to heel-toe double-clutch on my Ls and can't imagine driving any other way.

I've driven the DSG and there are 3 reasons i'm not so keen.
1. I like to be in control
With DSG, I won't commit to a corner as I don't know if it will change gears mid-corner.
I found even when downshifting with paddles, I don't get the same compression braking that i get from a manual, although this might come with practise.
2. Cost of repairs - fine whilst it's under warranty, but the risk of breakage is a liability i don't want to consider
3. Perception of speed - the DSGs i've driven are so smooth, i don't feel the rush of acceleration.
This makes them less fun for me, even though they are faster.
4. Resale - When considering an R32 or S3 2nd hand, the liability of DSG makes me exclude them as an option. I would be willing to pay more for a non-DSG for this reason, perhaps others are like-minded, which would impact the respective resale values

[M4RK0]

I knew this post will come up!!!

I love the manuals, and after Justin's and another people comments about the performance of the DSG on track or on the limit, I'm now 90% for the manual in my new car at the end of the year,

Excellent vids!!

[Tim]

Being able to drive swiftly in a DSG equipped car is a bit of a no-brainer. Thats probably the main reason ill never own one.

I would consider it in a shopping trolley car perhaps.. Just not in a car that I want to drive for enjoyment.

[ido09s]

Would i be safe in assuming most of you are under 30 and live in the outer Sydney suburbs?

I am definietly going DSG if i buy one. As has already been said, the ease of an auto when i cant be stuffed changing gears and the fun a semi manual when i want to have fun.

Bear in mind i drive 130klms a day to and from work and i am 36 lol I am sick of changing gears in Sydney's traffic

[Capercat]

Fair enough if it's your daily. My Golf Sport auto in Sydney traffic is great, but come weekends nothing beats a manual.

[Tim]

I think people are just getting soft and lazy.
The need to do anything will be replaced by robots oneday so we wont ever need to get out of bed.
Cant wait!

[ido09s]

Sydney traffic and the stop start nature of it is making me lazy, and DSG is the perfect compromise. I am sick of changing gears every 2 minutes because of red lights!

[ben oz]

I have recently got a R 32 with the dsg - did not like it at all at first (up shifts at the rev limiter etc) - but once you learn how to drive with the dsg and get used to it - Brilliant gear box and so much fun to drive.
Comes into to its own in town / city driving. With the VR6 its a brilliant match - torque.

I was a bit hesitant after having a bad experience with a E36 M3 - with the SMG - too many issues to list.
I dont miss the 3rd pedal at all - coming from a Honda Type R (absolutely brilliant gear box - but the engine was horrible as a daily driver).

My Wife loves the dsg and VR6 - really easy to drive compared to a manual with a buzz box engine.
Bonus the mrs can concentrate on not hitting things rather than changing gear!

[Tim]

Sydney traffic and the stop start nature of it is making me lazy, and DSG is the perfect compromise. I am sick of changing gears every 2 minutes because of red lights!

You might as well be getting some exercise whilst youre stuck in traffic! :D

[Bizi]

Rocco spoiled himself with one of the world's finest, best balanced sports cars and he's right; a daily driver, traffic-grind situation is just one reason for the DSG.

Get the manual if you prefer it, but if you go DSG and learn to get the best from the engine and gearbox, you can have the best of both worlds: self-shifting with the paddles (or paddle extension 'fancy flappy bits') when you want to control the downshiftsd trailing throttle and microseconds-fast upshifts which allow you to focus on the apexes and and other interesting twisty bits.

However this is coming from a Jetta owner and as we all know (that aside from being strange and getting a boot!), Jettas in AU don't have a manual (or GLI) option. :(

OOPS. Better correct myself: Jetta TFSIs weren't ever sold here as a manual, a la the US-spec GLI or Jetta Cup cars, but the 2.0 TDI is available as either DSG or self-shift.

[G-rig]

I was a bit hesitant after having a bad experience with a E36 M3 - with the SMG - too many issues to list.
I dont miss the 3rd pedal at all - coming from a Honda Type R (absolutely brilliant gear box - but the engine was horrible as a daily driver).


DSG is a lot better than those awful SMG boxes, the new BMW DCT boxes would be a lot better :).

I agree the Type R gearbox was probably better than the VW Golf 6MT. I don't really like the clunky 1st into 2nd changes at low speed.

My R32 MKV was a 6MT so thought i'd try something different. THe DSG is quite suited to the R32 IMO, makes it that bit faster.

They both have their place but DSG makes it easy in traffic and is very quick and crisp after it's warmed up. Makes a good sound rev matching in the GTI too (farting).

[CJ9999]

For me the decision to go DSG was very easy.
Manual was never a consideration.
All the benefits of an automatic in city driving, plus better performance and ecomomy as well - a no-brainer.

Another DSG bonus is the awesome sound - perfect matching of engine and gearbox - with an addictive crackle and throttle blip on downchanges.

[YouSnooze]

As much as it hurts to say I firmly believe the future of the manual gearbox is limited. There's no denying DSG-type transmissions are faster & in many model lines increasingly popular due to the advantages of acting like a normal slushbox in traffic. You can't deny the impact of electronic driver assistance in daily driving as well as motorsport - it makes drivers faster & safer. As for the idea of getting a higher resale of your non-DSG VW - forget about it. The second hand market for manuals is diminishing as fast as the DSG uptake is rising.

[Justin Fox]

I agree to a point. Sad but true. Another example: Non-power steering feels awesome on the circuit, especially when you get the tail out as it returns so nicely. Don't see that as an option any more though.

[random]

As much as it hurts to say I firmly believe the future of the manual gearbox is limited. There's no denying DSG-type transmissions are faster & in many model lines increasingly popular due to the advantages of acting like a normal slushbox in traffic. You can't deny the impact of electronic driver assistance in daily driving as well as motorsport - it makes drivers faster & safer. As for the idea of getting a higher resale of your non-DSG VW - forget about it. The second hand market for manuals is diminishing as fast as the DSG uptake is rising.

That is true, the manual gear box is dying out. It won't completely die out just yet, but the market will just get smaller and smaller.

When i tried to sell my last car (manual), it took forever. I kept seeing similar cars on carsales (auto) disappearing from listings, yet mine was still there, yet it had less kms, and newer.

When you think about it (slight generalisation here)... females don't tend to drive manuals anymore, majority of them drive because they have to and need to get to places. If they are going to buy a car, it would be an auto... so there goes 50% of the market straight away, then you add 50% males probably likes driving autos, especially alot of cars with dsg gearbox. That leaves roughly 75%+ market only looking for auto cars.

I can see as the double clutch gets cheaper and cheaper for manufacturers to make, more and more cars will come exclusively dsg.

What i have also noticed is that Australia is a rare market where manual is actually cheaper than auto (we are not talking about dsg here). When i lived in hong kong a couple of years back, when i bought a car there, auto was actually cheaper than manual!!!

So i can see in the future, when manuals are less and less common, it will probably be more expensive, they manufacturers have to specially make manual cars.

OR i can see they would make a "fake manual" car.... where you still have your gearbox, but no more clutches lol


I agree to a point. Sad but true. Another example: Non-power steering feels awesome on the circuit, especially when you get the tail out as it returns so nicely. Don't see that as an option any more though.

I've never driven a non power steering car before... what is it like? daily?

[nath_mk6]

lol the only non-power steering car I ever drove was a 1970 era Holden Kingswood wagon, big arse car and was like driving a truck, but off topic...

I used to be a manual man all the way, but like most people got sick of the daily grind in the city, I agree a manual gives you a whole different driving experience, making you work that bit harder to get the most from the car, but in the end 90% of my driving is in the city these days and shifting constantly in heavy traffic is a pain the in butt. The DSG i think is a good balance between the advantages of the automatic whilst still affording the driver some level of quick and easy control over the gear selection through the paddles, its not the same as a manual though but I think is a much better alternative to the normal driving most of the population do, hence the uptake across various marques in their newer models.

I dont know if the manual will die out so to speak, but I do see it becoming an optional extra with very few cars available on the lot so to speak with the manual gear box

[Justin Fox]

I've never driven a non power steering car before... what is it like? daily?

Try having a go at go karting! Seriously though you feel very connected to road with non power steering but yes, painful to park.

[10d]

This is like film camera vs digital camera argument also.
Advancement in Technology are driven largely by efficiency and comfort.
I like driving cars equipped with manual transmission, as there is more enjoyment as I am interacting more with the car. Alas the traffic condition gets worse by the day. Spending hours stuck in traffic with a manual transmission can be quite frustrating.
Most modern sports cars now come with some sort of automatic gearbox as standard with manual as an option.
So for now I'm quite happy with automatics.

[fungy]

I gotta agree that the DSG is a brilliant bit of engineering and there's no way a manual gear change can beat it for speed, but I felt I lost the feedback from the car when I test drove it. With the DSG, I liked the smooth, quick gear changes and the blips on the way down, but with the manual, I just couldn't wipe the smile off my face :).

Luckily, I live in an area where there isn't that much traffic but i can see in places like Sydney, it can be a pain in the ass. I drove between Westmead and the city almost daily for a couple of months (in a manual suzuki swift) and became an angry little man lol

[Justin Fox]

Cars are reversing themselves now. Many sci-fi books and movies predict that we won't be driving at all in the future. Auto pilot here we come! (but there will always be a few of us who want to manual override!).

[CJ9999]

I've never driven a non power steering car before... what is it like? daily?

My first 5 cars didn't have power steering. At the time I was completely used to it and it seemed fine, as I'd never owned a car with power steering. Years later, if I ever drive a car without power steering it seems impossibly hard to steer and I can't believe that I could have ever been used to it!

[Tim]

nothing worse than a car with over assisted steering.
That was one of the things i hated about the standard mk5 gti. Steering was waaaayy too light with the stock suspension.

My old XY falcon had no power steering. Its perfectly fine other than at parking speeds. They are regarded as muscle cars for a reason though :D

[Justin Fox]

Tim try driving a BMW 335i, the thing has power assisted steering depending on how fast you're going so you never ever get used to it! Super frustrating and in my opinion very dangerous.

In regards to modern cars having over assisted steering. I'm with you but I always manage to get feel back. Even in a Honda Jazz, which you can steer with your pinky, if you slam the front and get an aggressive alignment as well as wider front rubber you instantly make the steering "heavier" and with these modifications you instantly gain more feel.

I drive Christina's R32 a lot and both our cars steer completely differently. Her steering is super light and mine is super heavy. The difference is light and day.

[Tim]

yep thats why i said with the "stock suspension"

Its amazing how much extra feel just an uprated rear swaybar will make to the steering weight.