First DSLR advice?

[sir_camel]

Hi team,

I am thinking over the next few months (or next few weeks if i want to pick one up before Melbourne F1) of getting my hands on a DSLR. I don't need anything too amazing as i am keen to just cut my teeth on something good quality but not ridiculously expensive first to see whether i can be bothered or if point and shoot is really what i'd ever need.

I am not at all concerned with buying second hand. Saw a Nikon D40 go on JDM for $350 which i wish i saw earlier.

So does anyone have advice on good ones to look out for? Thoughts on second hand? General advice?

Cheers
Mark

[10d]

Mark,

The thing to look out for:
Sensor capability (megapixels is less important compared to low light sensitivity)
Lenses (can't emphasise enough on this!) you can buy the best camera with the best sensors, but you put an el cheapo crappy lens on it, the pics will look crap. But you put good lens on a crap body, The result will still be better.

[bigwill]

Mark,

The thing to look out for:
Sensor capability (megapixels is less important compared to low light sensitivity)
Lenses (can't emphasise enough on this!) you can buy the best camera with the best sensors, but you put an el cheapo crappy lens on it, the pics will look crap. But you put good lens on a crap body, The result will still be better.


totally agree!
but also be aware of the crop factor of each camera and lens

[Frenchie]

I think having the eye and lots of practise is where its at...I have seen some amazing pics shot with a point and shoot camera, so you see doesn't matter what you have but more so having the eye.

Canon/Nikon seem to be the popular choice these days.

I went with the D90 as an entry DSLR - great camera, still learning so not best for advice.

Good price for D40 - perfect camera to get started -

[Byza]

a good place for second hand gear is actually like teds etc.. they always have second hand gear for sale or ask them and sometimes the boys are selling setups or know of some for sale... other place to look is ebay... there is some gems on there too and if your looking for setup, try buy local so you can at least view it...

i have a Canon 450D and they have dropped a lot since i bought mine 12 months ago whcih sucks but that always happens... it is a better camera then the 1000D and you get get the twin lense pack for about $1100 i think right now...

as people already have said, the value is in the lenses and not neccessarily the body... lenses hold there value and do not drop much from new - second hand... my camera isnt the greatest but by putting a better lense on, you can really notice the difference over the kit lenses...

[Pharkus]

I just bought the Canon 500D (enthusiast kit) for my first DSLR. $1,700 from JB incl 3 year warranty and two Ultra III 4gb cards (I know but hey RRP on this was about $2,300).

There is already an upgrade for the body, new Canon 550D.

You really have to be taking lots of shots to experiment and see what works. I am looking at taking a course soon to learn the "basics". Most important thing is to go and have a hold of the camera. I don't think there is all that much difference in quality at the beginner end of the market to notice much difference, but one camera may be easier to hold/shoot with over another depending on your grip.

[Howie]

I suggest the (in order of amateur to professional) Canon 500D -> 50D -> 7D -> 5D (MK1 or 2)

For what you're looking for, I think 500D is good. There are body + lens packages available which are good. Some come with twin-lense packages!

Don't do what I did. I bought a 5D mark II. It takes VERY good pics but wasted on an newbie like me.

H

[Pharkus]

I suggest the (in order of amateur to professional) Canon 500D -> 50D -> 7D -> 5D (MK1 or 2)

For what you're looking for, I think 500D is good. There are body + lens packages available which are good. Some come with twin-lense packages!

Don't do what I did. I bought a 5D mark II. It takes VERY good pics but wasted on an newbie like me.

H

ROFL..I was like that with most of my "hobbies". Just lash out at the second most expensive piece of kit you can buy, then drop the "hobby" 3 months later.

The 500D may be a good bargain now due to the introduction of the slightly higher model 550D.

There are 2 lense kits available. The cheaper twin lens kit and the enthusiast kit. I bought the enthusiast kit as I bargained an awesome price for it at JB then also bought a nicer 200mm zoom lense as well.

[Howie]

Should've asked me... I have my own commercial account with JB. Never have to haggle ever again.

[Pharkus]

Should've asked me... I have my own commercial account with JB. Never have to haggle ever again.

Will do next time. Good to know when I go splash out on another lense =)

[nath_mk6]

Just got my new 500D in from HK last night, very happy and with all the extra goodies have to say that the $1400 was worth it. I think its the enthusiast kit but can't remember came with the 18-200mm lens.

Got a 16gig card, a large tripod, 2 small ones (so small I laughed) some cleaning stuff a bag, spare battery and a few other little goodies, appears they through in all their excess stuff they no longer wanted as my wifes cousin worked at the store.

Now to crack on with some photos.

Reading the reviews from the states on the 550D there doesnt seem to be much difference between the 500 and 550, and isnt the 550 a replacement for the 450? or is the 500 the 450 replacement, so confusing..... lol

[Pharkus]

Just got my new 500D in from HK last night, very happy and with all the extra goodies have to say that the $1400 was worth it. I think its the enthusiast kit but can't remember came with the 18-200mm lens.

Got a 16gig card, a large tripod, 2 small ones (so small I laughed) some cleaning stuff a bag, spare battery and a few other little goodies, appears they through in all their excess stuff they no longer wanted as my wifes cousin worked at the store.

Now to crack on with some photos.

Reading the reviews from the states on the 550D there doesnt seem to be much difference between the 500 and 550, and isnt the 550 a replacement for the 450? or is the 500 the 450 replacement, so confusing..... lol

450 -> 500 -> 550

They just released the 550D damn quickly after the 500D. If you got the 18-200mm lens then thats the enthusiast kit. That lense by itself is retail $800AUD.

Prior to end of last year there was a promotion with Crumpler for the EOS range. I got a free crumpler bag with mine but had to pay for the rest of the stuff. Sounds like you got a good deal.

[burgs]

I think it all comes down to your budget, the first decision to make is what Brand of camera you would like to go with Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. Choose the camera brand you feel most comfortable in handling.

As others have mentioned the most important part of the camera is the glass you are shooting with (if you shoot behind an ordinary lens, you will never be happy with the results), make your first camera purchase with your next in mind. Starting off a 450D or 500D is a good base, learn how to use it, buy some good lenses and in the next couple of years once the interest has developed ,upgrade your body and use your collection of Lenses.

I made the change from Pentax to Canon about 2 years ago (as Pentax's current offerings at the time didnt really appeal to me, luckily i hadnt invested too much into the Pentax brand with lenses) and i havent regretted the move, I am currently shooting with a 40D and find it to be an awesome mid range camera, which has been simple to use and is likely to keep me entertained for a number of years.

[nath_mk6]

Whilst were on the first DLSR topic, can anyone recommend any courses for beginners for using a new DSLR? Something in Sydney, and not too time consuming as time is limited really.

[10d]

Nath, try the Australian Centre for/of Photography in Paddington.
They use to have night classes

[nath_mk6]

Thanks Tendy will do :)

[Howie]

I go to (google: Eastern suburbs community college) to do courses there. They have several photography classes, including the one in Paddington, mentioned above. Prices from $85 to $175 for up to 8 week courses, 16 hours. Courses include:

Basic photography (non SLR)
Landscapes for SLR
Digital storytelling
Photography 2 (advanced SLR)
Night photography

go have a snoop.

H

[bigwill]

i'll be looking into photography classes
thanks for the info howie!

[S&H]

Nath, try the Australian Centre for/of Photography in Paddington.
They use to have night classes

+1

[Romp]

Guys - thread ressurection.

I want to get into DSLR photography and looking to buy a cam soon. Ive basically narrowed it down to Canon 550D vs 600D ... almost the same but some slight diff's.

Also - which lens should i get with the kit? The whole Lens bit is what im having trouble deciding on there is a 18-55, a 18-200 or a twin kit etc etc.

I want to school myself up to a competent level before my Europe honeymoon at the end of the year. Also like to be able to take nice day-to-day landscape and portrait shots.

Thanks

[Robby_jai]

Lens is the key to nice photos! A good fast lens with a wide aperture will do wonders for the photos. 550d and 600d is much of a muchness. I would never buy the standard kit lens from canon they are quite terrible. Save the bucks and get a decent lens. I did this experiment with a friend using my 24-70mm f2.8 L lens and her kit lens 18-55mm on her 550d the quality difference was night and day. The lens will stay with you but camera bodies come and go. Start with a 550d body learn the ropes invest in a good Canon L lens or if the budget doesn't quite go that far get a good sigma ex lens.

You will thoroughly enjoy it. Also learn to use the camera in full manual mode. You will get stunning photos rather than letting the brain decide for you in full auto.

[Romp]

ok cool

so you'd go a body-only then get the 50mm f/1.8 ($120) and a 24-70 f2.8L ($1500)

the 24-70 sounds great altho its a bit rich for a newb - anything in a lower price bracket that you'd suggest is good i.e. better than standard pack gear

[Robby_jai]

the two lense you chose are bang on..

if the 24-70 F2.8 is a tad exxy i would recommend the following which are pretty sweet

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/17-50mm-f28-ex-dc-os-hsm-sigma
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/24-70mm-f28-if-ex-dg-hsm-sigma

mind you prices for them can be quite exxy as well....... if you are in syd i can get some pretty decent prices on camera lenses :)

or you can always buy online
DWI camera has some pretty decent prices.

its hard to say what to recommend... because dont know your budget and style of photography you intend to do.. but if you are going to europe I would suggest a nice wide angle lense to take some stunning landscape photography. A good general allrounder 24-70mm and a 70-200mm and a wide angle and one prime lense shuold complete the whole camera kit.

start off with the 24-70mm as it would cover a lot of the common things you would do. and then slowly add to your collection. thats what i did.. started off buying heaps of kit lenses... and ended up replacing all of them.. so the money i spent on it.. i could have saved and bought the L lenses in the first place :)


ok cool

so you'd go a body-only then get the 50mm f/1.8 ($120) and a 24-70 f2.8L ($1500)

the 24-70 sounds great altho its a bit rich for a newb - anything in a lower price bracket that you'd suggest is good i.e. better than standard pack gear

[Romp]

Cool dwi price on the sigma 24-70 is $748 ... Heaps more reasonable

Ok id get body, 50mm f1.8 and the sigma should be roughly $1600 all up which is what i was aiming for

[Romp]

Oh and shots id do would be portrait, indoor, landscape in that order. I occasionally do macro food shots too

[Robby_jai]

The lens u chose will do nicely! Make sure u get the sigma ex series lens if you don't want to buy L series lens! They are the more affordable but just as nice! Although not quite comparable to the L series but that would be splitting hairs!

[Androo]

Honestly, I would buy a kit than do what you are doing. Photography is an expensive hobby and I don't think you should go all out until you know you want to be in it.

Buy a 600D with 15-85mm 3.5/5.6 lens, which is actually a good lens to begin on. You can go buy a "L" lens or EF and spend a lot more money, but you are only starting off. Don't forget that camera lenses do not depreciate in value like the body does. Buy the 600D 15-85mm kit lens once you get the hang of it, upgrade. I've been using this lens and the quality of it is excellent. Read reviews and it's an awesome everyday lens, in fact I don't think I'll ever sell it when I upgrade UNLESS I buy a full frame camera.

Also remember the 550/600/60/7D are 1.6 crop bodies, buying a 24-70mm lens means 38mm-112mm effectively. For an everyday lens that will be a bit painful, If you want to do EF buy 17-40 & 24-70 2.8 THEN 70-200mm 2.8 :P. On a full frame 5D you can get away with only 24-70 & 70-200.

My honest 2cents? 600D with 15-85mm (wide lens + has a good zoom range) you will not go wrong, then upgrade.

[Robby_jai]

actually mate i don't agree with you :)

talk to anyone that is really into photography. Its the lens NOT the camera body that determines the quality of a photo a good body certainly helps but if it was a buget question of better lens vs better camera body....alot of people would go the lens over body..... its a very commonly asked question online and discussed by many experts... try googling it... there are some very sound arguments and photographic demonstrations for proof.

How a lens performs in low light... how fast it focuses, lens flare, fringing, chromatic aberrations, distortion, vignetting are mostly lens quality related issues....

you could get a canon 1D/nikon D3S with the worse lens on it.. and i can assure you... try taking a picture in less than ideal situation and you will be fustrated.. noisy photos... lens constantly hunting trying to focus.. lens flare... fringing... and no amount of camera body techno wizardry is going to overcome a lens weakness.

you could get a reasonable camera body and invest it in the lens and get very high quality photos and not have reduced issue like have the lens hunting to focus.. being able to perform superbly in low light. etc etc etc

secondly... your point about buying a 24-70mm means its a 38-112mm effectively because of crop factor. Yeh... and ?????????? does that make the lens less useable ??? I certainly dont think so... i happen to use both the 24-70 and 70-200mm quite a lot and i do a lot of photography...everything from macro.. to landscape... night/day.. to portraits etc.. and i have a crop sensor camera body... and i am happily using both lens for all my photography needs on a daily basis.

i know a lot of people who use these lens's on cropped sensor camera bodies.. 40D, 50D, 60D,7D are very very common amongst enthusiast and semi pro... amongst the 40D-60D & 7D range.... all cropped sensor... the 24-105 and 24-70mm L lens are one of the more popular and best selling lens in cannon's range amongst semi pro and enthusiast alike....

i very much all of them could be wrong if every one is buying them and using them.. i would be willing to bet a lot of the forum members would be using cropped sensor camera bodies with similar lens 24-70 or 24-105mm

so i don't agree with your argument that as an every day lens it will be a bit painful. the only thing painful about them is they are a larger lens and heavier but that's a sacrifice im happy to live with for better photo quality.

as an FYI... the 15-85mm is HARDLY a cheap lens. they retail for $1200 with an aperture range of 3.5-5.6... depending on zoom factor. a 24-70 is ONLY 1600 bucks.. 400 dollars more FOR a better and faster lens....Fixed aperture F2.8 through out the entire zoom range

or you could spend less and get a 24-105 L lens.. for 1300 buck...

the money you save by NOT buying a 600D body and just going for a 550D and getting a slightly better lens.... as far as I am concerned is a better value proposition...

the lens will outlast the camera body... it makes it a better investment.. there will always be a market for quality L lens with big apertures!!!!!!!

Camera body prices tumble like crazy. camera bodies are superseded quickly.... you will most likely go through several camera body change overs ... and still end up using the one lens... if you buy right.. the long term saving of NOT having to buy another lens again.. out weighs... spending 1200 buck buying an average lens now..... realising later its not fast enough... etc etc.. and spending another 1600 buck to buy the right lens....for an overall spend of nearly 3k... ( you said it yourself.. buy cheap now and then upgrade later... WHY ????? just means you spend more money over all for lens hardly makes sense)

i speak from experience.. i went through that painful and costly exercise.. its only expensive.. because people go through that painful buying heaps of cheap lens and bodies before it dawns on them.... buy a good lens and be over and done with. if i did that first i would have saved myself a small fortune. if it doesnt pan out.. hock the L lens.. there is a huge market for them.. heaps of ppl will buy it off you


i know which way im going





Honestly, I would buy a kit than do what you are doing. Photography is an expensive hobby and I don't think you should go all out until you know you want to be in it.

Buy a 600D with 15-85mm 3.5/5.6 lens, which is actually a good lens to begin on. You can go buy a "L" lens or EF and spend a lot more money, but you are only starting off. Don't forget that camera lenses do not depreciate in value like the body does. Buy the 600D 15-85mm kit lens once you get the hang of it, upgrade. I've been using this lens and the quality of it is excellent. Read reviews and it's an awesome everyday lens, in fact I don't think I'll ever sell it when I upgrade UNLESS I buy a full frame camera.

Also remember the 550/600/60/7D are 1.6 crop bodies, buying a 24-70mm lens means 38mm-112mm effectively. For an everyday lens that will be a bit painful, If you want to do EF buy 17-40 & 24-70 2.8 THEN 70-200mm 2.8 :P. On a full frame 5D you can get away with only 24-70 & 70-200.

My honest 2cents? 600D with 15-85mm (wide lens + has a good zoom range) you will not go wrong, then upgrade.

[Robby_jai]

Androo,

I should point out.. that what Romp intends to photograph...portraits..... indoor, macro food....

i would sure as hell be buying a good lense... i've done food macro photography, indoors and portrait... with average lens.... and the quality versus a high quality lens is day and night.

based on that list of to do.. i'd definitely go a better lens


Oh and shots id do would be portrait, indoor, landscape in that order. I occasionally do macro food shots too

[Robby_jai]

http://www.youtube.com/user/DigitalRevCom#p/u/75/hk5IMmEDWH4

THIS video is a very good case in point. idiocy aside... this whole video exactly goes through this whole discussion and compares photos between quality lens with average body... vs average lens pro body

[Androo]

It's not a matter of what clearly is a better lens and what isn't, it's his first DSLR and I would not spend over $4000-$5000 on a setup straight away. Get whatever body he wants but I wouldn't spend extra money until I know how to use the camera and all the functions. If anything 24-70 isn't exactly for macro photography. I would be investing into something like 50mm 1.4/1.2 or 85mm 1.8/1.2 lenses. Don't under estimate the 15-85mm lens, it's the second from the top of the EF-S range behind the 17-55 2.8 and the picture quality and build quality are top notch. Not to mention one of the best focal ranges available for an everyday lens, which is important to have on a DSLR. No doubt a 17-40 24-70 are better but I like my wide angle so I may be biased, for the kit price it's well worth it.

It's a good idea to cover all ranges, buying a 24-70 isn't going to cover wide angle shots on a crop body. Buy a 17-40, 24-70 and 70/200 in that case AND a macro lens. Like I said at the end of the day it's not our decision all we are doing is offering him advice and my advice would be buy a kit lenses with a decent body get used to it and then upgrade. Handing a 1D4 with the best macro lens available to a newbie he won't produce a good photo. If anything you need to ease your way into it.

A plumber never blames his tools. Simple? outgrow them need a better lens? buy it when your ready.

Romp, you clearly don't mind spending money on a decent lens and in my opinion macro photography buy a 50mm 1.4 with a 550/600D 15-85 OR 17-55 2.8 lens. Both these lenses are a good starting point and a 50mm 1.4 is an excellent lens for macro, the images you will produce with this lens on the right settings will be second to none. Just make sure you cover the majority of the ranges. Take a look at the random photo dump thread and look at the photos members are taking, not all are high quality lens but the photos are very nice. It's the driver, make sure you research the quality of the lens before buying.

The advice both from Robby and I is coming from different angles, both good advice but we have to remember this is your first DSLR. You may hate it, don't hurt your wallet early on.

[kaoticice]

Cool dwi price on the sigma 24-70 is $748 ... Heaps more reasonable

Ok id get body, 50mm f1.8 and the sigma should be roughly $1600 all up which is what i was aiming for

I think thats a great start!!! Just a feedback on the sigma 24-70, i've been using it for about a month now. My verdict is that the image quality is great and the focus is dead set quick. My main issue its the size and the weight of the thing. I know that the cannon/nikon 24-70 equivalents are bigger and heavier but these are the premium lenses with special coating. Consider the Tamron 25-75mm, its got more focal length, cheaper, same image quality/focus like the Sigma and its alot smaller.

[Romp]

thanks for all the feedback guys

im going to try out a friend's 17-55 and 24-70 to see if im going to use the wider or zoomed range more. I think the 17-55 may be more versatile and then ill pair it up with either the 35 or 50mm f 1.4 ... again i need to try both (think the 50mm better for my macro purposes and indoor/portrait)

[ikprojekt]

this post is going to be out of topic a little bit, but anyway i wanted to share this.

the olympus xz-1 is an amazing camera. check this diorama photo.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5103/5605609231_9bec4873df.jpg

this photo is taken using the filters in the camera! no software required! very nice.

[moluu1]

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