Swaybar kits and differences between each?

[GBJ-R32]

well i though that since im looking into upgrading the stock sway bars on the 09 r32, i was wondering if anyone has some good info on which sway bars too upgrade too, or even reviews on the current ones you are using.

thanks need as much help as possible abit lost atm

[schoona]

duck onto www.golfmkv.com and search for "WhiteJames". He is an aussie guy that has devoted a great deal of time critically analysing plenty of suspension setups.

H&R
Neuspeed
Whiteline all make bars.

PM Rennenhaus on here and see what options he can get for you ;)

[nath_mk6]

Yep the reviews are here (http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100863)

[GBJ-R32]

wow you two where fast,

thanks for the links and info
going to be fun reading them

[schoona]

bNo problems mate :)

[GBJ-R32]

"Add front and rear anti-rolls bars is definitely an advantage despite some trade-off in ride comfort. If you’re sitting on stock springs/dampers, difference to handling with introduction of sways bars front and rear will not be as great as changing the whole package of springs/bars/dampers and possibly even bushes. In addition; if you’re looking to stay with the stock springs/dampers – the smaller set of H&R anti-roll bars may be more fitting as a compromise between ride and handling – also depends where you live and drive. The owner of this vehicle is looking at a Bilstein Sports Strut + Bilstein spring as a matched pair to compliment his big mother H&R anti-roll bars. "

Ok sweet so far the smaller 24/22mm front and rear sway bars look the goods but which ones argghhh and should i also change the links from the plastic stuff to the metal links

[Panman]

well i though that since im looking into upgrading the stock sway bars on the 09 r32, i was wondering if anyone has some good info on which sway bars too upgrade too, or even reviews on the current ones you are using.

thanks need as much help as possible abit lost atm

I've got a Neuspeed Bar and solid links on mine, am selling the Neuspeed bar - as I'm going more track focussed. PM Me for details

[G-rig]

Best off getting H&R's if you can afford the extra IMO.. no noise issues and a german brand (think they make the OEM ones if i'm not mistaken).

Ian and others have had good success with Whiteline as well.

[AP]

As far as I know KW now do swaybars.. Not 100% sure about that..

[GBJ-R32]

kw now do them as well??

was looking at the H&R ones also the smalls the 24/22mm untill i had a read of this http://www.spswebpage.com/Tech-Article-Archives/Improved-Handling-with-Anti-Sway-Bars.html
from what im reading and understanding the swaybars wont help reduce the understeer but increase it, also only helps in reducing body roll.

the thing i hate most about the stock set up of the R is the extreme understeer through a corner and also handling.
also wanted a cheap option to fix this but dosnt seem like the case will need to upgrade coilovers and links plus sways to get what i want.

[Jig]

I swear by H&R F&R sways. Works perfectly and have had no issues with them from an NVH perspective.

[AP]

Yeah the H&R swaybars are good, but they should come with new brackets..

[Capercat]

Yeah the H&R swaybars are good, but they should come with new brackets..

What's your experience with the brackets?

[10d]

What's your experience with the brackets?
I contacted TCCA once, and they said the new ones didn't come with brackets. ???

[Capercat]

Oh yere now I remember, TCCA used the original brackets from the GTI.

[stephen8512]

Im about to get the H&R bars fitted to my jetta and they came with brackets for the fronts only. The rears reuse the original brackets from the OEM sways apparently.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/stephen8512/DSC_0080.jpg

there's 4 brackets but its for the top and bottom links for the front sways......

[GBJ-R32]

ah sweet so H&R look the way to go.

is there a particular site or importer that you guys used?

[G-rig]

Performalink.com in NZ .

[stephen8512]

rennenhaus (ian) can source them for you. Thats where I got mine from

[AP]

What's your experience with the brackets?
Once you cut the front brackets they are never the same..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[G-rig]

rennenhaus (ian) can source them for you. Thats where I got mine from

Cool, didn't know he sold them.


Once you cut the front brackets they are never the same..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you are referring to Suga's I'm waiting to see how they get on sourcing the brackets/bolts from Ian and will fix them up for the cost (as i had no idea anything was wrong with them) :cool:.

[Justin Fox]

Personally I've not heard of anyone having "metallic" noises from Sway Bars on other cars, only squeeks from not greasing up the bushings enough on install but it seems like a fair few people are having noise issues with Sways on Golfs.

H&R make it a selling point that their bushings feature a special urethane/Teflon composite that prevents squeaks and you don't even need to grease them up (nice) but the noises aren't coming from the bushings, they are coming from the brackets.

I'm no engineer but from what I understand:

- The brackets, if not installed to perfection (lined up and bolted in perfectly) will move under load and make noises. The brackets wrap around the bushings (you can see in stephen8512's pic above, bottom left corner, the 2 brackets to go over the bushings (black rubbery bits on the sway bar). Here's another picture:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4055/4464210206_380af38d15_o.jpg

Some people have been able to re-create a knocking noise when at a stand still and turning the wheel full lock left to right. I know Tendy went as far as welding the brackets together (!) but I'm not sure it worked? I also have information that if you do use the stock/oem bolts, they tend to come loose over time, maybe they stretch? No idea, but the bolts that come with the kit are a lot better than the oem bolts. I've also heard of greasing the hell out of the brackets and one person reported no more noise.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4028/4464210140_62dfb66ed9_o.jpg
In this picture you can clearly see a damaged bolt. Whether this was done on install (I'm not sure this is the case) or whether it was done just over time from the load on the bolt (most likely?) I'm not too sure, but it might explain why there were no noises (?) but put these on as they are on another car and Dedy at Top One guaranteed there will be noise from movement of the brackets.

I have to admit I'm still a little confused by it all. Ian is looking into it for me at the moment so I'm hoping he'll chime in with some good news soon.

[Justin Fox]

If you are referring to Suga's I'm waiting to see how they get on sourcing the brackets/bolts from Ian and will fix them up for the cost (as i had no idea anything was wrong with them) :cool:.
You're a champ Greg :cool:

[G-rig]

I know some people were welding the Neuspeed bars to reduce noise, dont know which parts exactly.

As for the bolts - as long as they are done up tightly they shouldn't come lose, nor make a noise. If they do they are prob not done up.

I'm no expert but doubt the dealers or other workshops refer to the correct torque figures for all the different bolts, they just do them up as hard as they can (someone who knew a dealer mechanic who mentioned it on another forum).


You're a champ Greg :cool:

No dramas, have you heard if you can get the parts from Ian? Otherwise H&R should be able to send some out?

Assume they were damaged either installing the first time, when they were taken out or by your guy (did he inspect them first or half way through the job?). Anyway should get sorted soon with any luck!

[GBJ-R32]

alright so Ian is going to get a call from me

ok should i wait to hear the results of y the noises are happening or just go ahead and order the H&R small set 24/22mm or should i go big ones

[G-rig]

alright so Ian is going to get a call from me

ok should i wait to hear the results of y the noises are happening or just go ahead and order the H&R small set 24/22mm or should i go big ones

GTI you could go smaller ones but i'd get the H&R 24mm, 26mm for R32.

[ml16]

Does anybody run whiteline sway bars? I havent seen exact pricing on H&R but whiteline seem to be competitive and having used them before on my subaru i would use them again.

[benough]

Does anybody run whiteline sway bars? I havent seen exact pricing on H&R but whiteline seem to be competitive and having used them before on my subaru i would use them again.

Hey Marty

I have them on my GT TDI. Just a rear 24mm set on 'hard'

On stock suspension it dials out, IMHO, %90 of the understeer. The ride is a touch harsher, mainly on the little bumps in the road, but I got used to it in a week or 2.

Even though it got rid of the understeer I had it combined with an ALK and rear trailing arm bushes.

They tighten up the steering really nice, and also give more "positive pressure" to the tyres connecting with the road, which translates to better grip on undulating surfaces/camber changes.

I got it all done, parts & install for $1k. It was worth every cent.

[ml16]

Sounds alright to me. What is the front sway bar thickness from factory?

When i put 22mm RSB on the subaru it seemed to dial out most of the understeer, and a bigger FSB seemed to get rid of almost any remaining understeer, in fact it was my tyres (kumho ku23) letting me down in the end...

[MasterKevin]

H&R for sway bars :)

[ml16]

would 24mm rear and say a 26/27mm be good for the front be overkill? I was thinking 22mm rear and 24mm front (set on hard).

[Tim]

a bit off topic as the original post was in reference to an R32 but..

On a front wheel drive car you want a compliant front end. Especially on a TDI model which has so much torque..
Its all dependant on the suspension setup as a whole so generalising isnt really a great idea but have a read of how swaybars work before you go messing about too much.
Basically a swaybar transfers grip to the outer wheel during cornering. Thats fine until you go too far on the front of a fwd and you start unweighting the inner wheel too much. Generally ends with massive wheelspin which is already a problem on a TDI.

Ive always preferred to stiffen front springs on my fwd cars over uprated swaybars. Rideheight is very important on a fwd car as well. Low and stiffer will reduce body roll without compromising traction too much. Too low and you will push wide in corners again as your suspension runs out of travel. Same with too stiff will lose you grip as well. Its all about finding the best balance that will keep those front wheels on the ground.

Anyways as mentioned. Everything has to work together. It would be interesting to see if front and rear swaybar kits are designed around standard springs or built to work better with aftermarket. Changing one thing does have an effect on the balance of the whole system which at the end of the day is what we are all chasing. One other variable is the driver. Perhaps I prefer a more entertaining car than some but fwd with a steerable rear is awesome.

[∆pex]

I have a question regarding the smaller H&R sway bar set (26/22 mm) for the GTI...

This set has two options, based on whether your car has bi-xenons or halogens. I have halogens so that would be the natural choice for me - but I plan on retrofitting the bi-xenons eventually and would like to cover myself for this future mod. So, anyone know exactly what the difference is between these two - would the xenon set fit properly on my halogen specced car?

If there are fitment issues between the two versions, why is there no halogen/xenon option for the thicker 28/24 mm bars offered?

[GBJ-R32]

guys i got a price from Ian for $937 or around there for the H&R big + adjustable.

whiteline adjustable's come close to the H&R in terms of pricing but which is better hmmm

[stephen8512]

You get what you pay for

[GBJ-R32]

so stephen which one would u suggest to buy?

stephen sorry the whiteline is 285 where as teh H&R is $975 including shipping/gst.

[stephen8512]

i decided to get the H&R's...

granted they are a touch more expensive than the whitelines and ive heard nothing bad really about whitelines

but its like comparing wheels......BBS or BBS knockoffs? Not saying that whitelines are knockoffs but personally, I went with H&R due to build quality and the fact that its german made, teflon bushes means no knocks or squeaks (touch wood) and going with that mantra ""doing it right the first time around". quality speaks for itself and it shows when I received the bars. and now that its on the car, it makes me smile everytime turn the wheel. :)

Ian (rennenhaus) who is a sponsor on this forum also stocks whitelines and he was trialling them on his old R32. He liked them and they are quite bang for buck too considering the price.

[10d]

I actually got a strange combo on my sways. 27mm FSB and 22mm RSB

Solid bar have more strength where the hollow ones are lighter. So it is a trade off. My front 27mm are APR/Hotchkis which are hollow and 22mm H&R solid. The GTI being a heavy front, I tried to shave as much weight possible there.
Having an adjustable coilovers definitely help setting the odd combination.

I had the front Whiteline FSB which I took off because of the OEM brackets issue. It should not be a problem now that Whiteline is releasing their own brackets.

[GBJ-R32]

i noe its a shame that hotchkis dont make a R32 kit for the 09 model other wise i would have gone that.

anyone up for a group buy of H&R sways?

just got an email from Ian group buy wont work with these since the shipping cant really be slashed due to size of them.

[amrjon]

I’ve tried both rear sway bar only and front + rear. I’d very highly recommend upgrading the rear, the improvements in balance, turn-in and most of all elimination of understeer is a fantastic improvement to the GTI’s handling. Nothing wrong with front + rear, but I’d say 90% of the improvement is from the rear. If I was buying again I wouldn’t bother with the front.

Also, FYI (I’ve posted this elsewhere, but thought I’d share here too) - Whileline rear sway bar problems and fixes.

In my opinion, performance of the whiteline rear sway bars is badly affected by the lack of a welded lug (or similar) that other bars have adjacent to the bush mounting points, to prevent lateral movement of the bar. The yellow rings with the pinched metal clamps that come with them are useless. The lateral movements can be a fair bit and can also leads to clunking sounds, and failure of end links. Its also reported by several users that after some time the poly bushes become noisy, and require periodic re-greasing to keep them quiet. I believe these 2 issues may be related. ie it is the lateral movement that carries the grease out of the bush.

The pic below shows both these problems. The clamp pushed out the side, showing the extent of the lateral movement and the grease spread out from the bush.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9458/0copy2of1004053.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/i/0copy2of1004053.jpg/)

The noises were driving me mad, + I broke and end link, so I made up some strong alloy clamps to prevent the movement. (see pics below with the clamp installed on the bar). Since these have been on there is no sideways movement of the bar at all, no noise, no clunks and all is good. Its been about 2-3 months now and there’s been no return of the squeaking noise either, hopefully I’m not calling it to early, but this may also have proved my theory that stopping the sideways movement will fix the bush noise too by stoping the grease from being carried out as the bar slides through the bushes.

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9326/5copy2of1004064.th.jpg (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/5copy2of1004064.jpg/)

Anyway – this is all just for info of others. A sturdy solution to lock the bars in place laterally WILL eliminate movement of the bar and any associated clunking noises. Really the bars should come with something like this, or a welded lug or something similar from the start. As those little yellow clamps don’t hold the bar in place at all.

The good news is that whiteline have indicated that they are working on a similar fix themselves, so there should be a solution available for new and existing customers. Or if you can’t wait you could make up something yourself like I have.

[GBJ-R32]

these clamps should have been tested before released if customers are complaining about them.

but well done on doing the diy on the clamps from the picture they look nice and sturdy. (just keep an eye out if the bolts come lose)

[Androo]

Thanks amrjon! I've actually just ordered my whiteline RSB... I'm not sure if it will come with a new clamp.

I think I may take this advice and make one up before putting it on the car. Just making sure in the first photo is it the one on the left? it's going on top of the yellow thing?

[Justin Fox]

Nice post thanks for sharing!

[amrjon]

these clamps should have been tested before released if customers are complaining about them.

but well done on doing the diy on the clamps from the picture they look nice and sturdy. (just keep an eye out if the bolts come lose)

Agree - they way they slide is not good.
I theaded the aluminium, + locktite + nylock nuts - so hopefully they will stay put, but your right, it never hurts to check from time to time.

[amrjon]

Thanks amrjon! I've actually just ordered my whiteline RSB... I'm not sure if it will come with a new clamp.

I think I may take this advice and make one up before putting it on the car. Just making sure in the first photo is it the one on the left? it's going on top of the yellow thing?

In the first pic, the yellow bush with the metal band is the standard item that comes with the bar but does very little and slides around.
The clamp I made is in the second picture, to the left of the mounting bracket.

[Androo]

Oh!.. haha thanks for that... I might try make something similar and see how i go. Getting it fitted in 2 weeks time with some other small mods.

[Androo]

Quick question since this is along the topic.

Is it necessary to change the RSB end links? Has anyone changed the RSB without changing the links and have the stock end links snapped or break?

[amrjon]

Plenty of people have upgraded the rear sway bar with stock end links without problems. I did snap one after about 2 years, but I haven't heard of this being too common, and I suspect the sliding of the bar may have contributed as one of the other people I know who shapped one had the same bar + sliding problems.
Either way you don't need to change them straight away. Run stock and I'd say 90% chance they will be fine, if not upgrade them down the track. Its an easy DIY.

[Androo]

Thanks again :) I guess i'll leave them and make or try find some clamps and stop the movement.