Sound System in a R32

[GBJ-R32]

Hey guys/girls need help making my mind on the setup i want to run for my car.

Currently have the RCD500(i think the 6 stacker mp3) and stock speakers plus amp.

So i was planning to change the front speakers to the Focals 165 Vr3 ways at the front.
Also have a 12" custom built sub with a custom built box which needs 1000 stable at 2omh and can take up to 1700.

ok so i need help deciding what to change the deck to should i buy a Double din or either go a single din.
i was looking at the http://www.gadgetguy.com.au/pioneer-avic-f900bt-review-152565-10.html and also the alpine http://www.alpine.com.au/showItem.php?item_id=43

i cant make up my mind on what to do. also have a limited budget this whole build needs to cost less then $3,500. Ive spent so far $600 on the sub and thats it.

also need two amps plus wirring.

need all the help i can get

[dopey]

Where abouts are you located? If you're in Sydney, I'd highly recommend you speak to Marty @ FHRX Studios.

http://www.fhrxstudios.com/

Even if you're interstate, Marty should be able to sell you exactly what you need. He really knows his stuff - builds a lot of SQ (Sound Quality) focused cars and has done a couple of mine. He will be able to tell you exactly what matches and what should go well with your preferred style of music and so forth.

BTW; it's possible to retain the standard headunit by using a line converter so that you can keep your steering wheel buttons and everything too.

[GBJ-R32]

dopey big love man

i know i can keep the standard headunit but it dosnt control the sub or give me much eq settings thats y i would rather upgrade it. but atm im currently send marty an email ill let u know how it goes thanks man

[stephen8512]

PM g-rig

he used to have that pioneer doubel din unit IIRC in his R32

[G-rig]

Single dins don't look right in our cars IMO, I'd go for a double din touch screen of your choice (I had an Alpine & RNS510 after that). Although it's up to you, those Alpine 9887 (or 9886 not sure?) seem highly rated if you can find a second hand one.

I think you want an amp with a sub pot (gain) control, otherwise an active LOC like the audiocontrol LC6i has an optional sub remote.

Personally I use the Arc Mini amps which work very well and are tiny, however the big fella (1000W) is much bigger. 500W may be enough for a 12" not sure - worth visiting Marty if you're near by.

[GBJ-R32]

G-rig thanks for the info and i agree with u that the double din looks good but i cant really justify the cost of them for e.g the apline Dd with bluetooth and gps is well over 2700 installed that leave nothing for my amps plus speakers let alone anything else i may need.

if i get a pioneer which i can source a demo for $1300 then it also needs a cradle which is 150 + universal lead for the headunit 40+ Cbus for it to work with my wheel at 260 + antenna adaptor 80 = $1830

leave around 1600 for two amps plus speakers

this is driving my head in. currently waitting for a reply from Marty lets see what he can suggest to do.

[GBJ-R32]

this is also the sub that i bought http://aespeakers.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=65&osCsid=2155735266bca391e833f8ba13a414f0

[G-rig]

No worries, it's not really easy to decide about this kind of stuff and adds up a bit by the time you get facias and connects2/Pac adapters to make the MFSW controls work. Agree that any good quality 2din is still quite expensive, and i never really bothered with watching DVD's etc, but makes navigating through ipod/usb titles heaps easier.

I'd also take a look at the Eclipse CD7200 MKII, gives you a lot of features (tuning etc) and is meant to sound good: http://frankiesautoelectrics.com.au/vmchk/SPL-Competition/Eclipse-CD7200-MKII. There's a thread on it on Mobileelectronics (http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums/index.php?showtopic=543997).

[PASHN8]

Anyone know if the Audiocontrol LC6i can use the signal sensing to switch on when connected to the factory HU, then allow it to use the 'remote trigger' output to switch on an amp like the Alpine PDX.5?

I'm quite like the price of this unit combined with the fact that it has an optional sub control trim pot. Wouldn't be able to deal with simply adjusting 'bass' level from the HU without inidividual sub control!

[dopey]

So what did Marty say about it all? Figure something out?

[GBJ-R32]

hey yea he did reply and i must say he knows what his talking about.

just to busy with uni mid sems atm to sit down and plan anything.

i was thinking of importing the focals as i can get them half price from italy rather then pay full rrp also buying everything else that i need then just handing it over to him for it to be installed.

[GBJ-R32]

Hey there mate, thanks for the email.

One of the key issues you’re going to face is that with a budget of $3k you’re not going to fit all that stuff in, especially when you consider to use a different head unit at the front you’ll require a CAN interface (for accessories), a dash kit and a steering wheel interface.

Moving right along; I have attached a quotes for you to look over based on what information you have supplied. Now on the subject of the quote and what lies within, there are a few things to take into consideration:

1. Speaker concentration.

Seeing as you're seated at the front and your ears face forward I suggest you concentrate on the front of the vehicle for now and leave the rear speakers as they are. The only time we bother upgrading the rear speakers is if you either A; have people in the rear all the time or B; run surround sound. Spend all the available speaker budget on the front stage and concentrating on getting this correct. I'd love to sell you more speakers for the rear but you really do not need to upgrade them. For more information regarding this, see here:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/faq.asp#28

I have chosen the Vibe Space 6 because when it comes to budget’s under the $1000 mark (for the speakers themselves), the Vibe’s are a clear winner and have won more competitions than any other. If you wanted to run above the $1k range for drivers there are three way sets from Focal, Morel, Crescendo and DynAudio which we often use as well.

2. Stage.

In order to get the stage correct at the front we employ many techniques such as sound deadening, diffusing, angling, shielding and the careful mounting of all the front speakers. This can take quite a long time but rest assured you're only charge a fraction of this tuning time. For more information read this:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/faq.asp#12

3. Interconnects.

When it comes to installing a quality system you should not ruin it with cheap cables. You need to get crystal clear signals to the amplifiers. These amplifiers also need high current so they can output large amounts of clean power. This clean power then needs to be transported to the speakers on large speaker cables. All terminals, fuse holders and distribution blocks are plated to fight corrosion (which impedes current flow). That said I have started this quote with cable that is of a very high standard. You can go down to a cheaper option if the budget requires (you can also move the cable quality up if you like).

http://www.stingerelectronics.com

http://www.connectionaudison.com

http://www.wireworldcable.com

http://www.qed.co.uk

For further information see here:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/faq.asp#29

4. Sound deadening.

Regarding deadening, we include different amounts depending on budget. Remove the any deadening and associated labour you do not want it but remember the more deadening in the car, the better is will sound. We strongly recommend you do the full doors at least. Deadening even helps factory speakers. As for what deadening does, see here:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/faq.asp#27

For images of it in situ, click here:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/photogallery_int.asp#interest4

We also have various tutorials of how we install speakers into car doors. These tutorials show you what goes into deadening, diffusing and sealing the doors:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/faq.asp#door_tuts

5. Sealing and mounting.

When mounting speakers many people tend to overlook one of the simplest laws of nature; element path. For subbass and midbass to be strong and punchy we need one side of the speaker to remain sealed to the other side (as in an infinite baffle situation). This is because when the cone moves suddenly, it creates a high pressure cell on one side of the cone while a low pressure cell is created on the other side. Getting back to the laws of nature; like water, air also takes the easiest path. This means unless you have sealed your baffles into your door and installed a gasket around your speaker, your air (and bass) simply disappears through the gaps. The other main reason for creating a baffle is so the speaker mounts via the factory hole, preventing the need to drill metal. For images of this see here:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/photogallery_int.asp#interest8_5

6. Enclosure.

Some people ask why enclosure cost varies so much. It's all in the design and build. Our enclosures are designed individually, not only suit the subwoofer but also the car and listener involved. They're glued, screwed, stapled, sealed inside and out and are fully weather proofed. They're also coated internally with sound deadening to fight internal resonances and reverberations. Lastly, they also contain fiberfill to damp the enclosure. We usually trim them in carpet when we make them but they can be vinyled, painted, plated or whatever you want to do with it. For more information see here:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/photogallery_int.asp#interest8_2

On the subject of what different enclosures cost and what different types are available, see here:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/faq.asp#39

Now I’ve put the specs in my programs here to model an enclosure and I get a Q of 0.707 with an enclosure volume of 0.61cf. Sometimes (if the subwoofer is in a separate chamber we aim for a slightly larger boom (Q of 0.8) but seeing as yours is in the same chamber as you I’d stick to 0.707. For more info on this see here:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/faq.asp#40

7. Install time.

When it comes to installing the system into your car, you're charged only a portion of the labour - usually a third or quarter of the time it actually takes us. The reason it takes a long time because we refuse to rush our installation work and we always install things with meticulous attention to detail. Everything must be done correctly and unfortunately this takes time. Have a look at this page on our website for more info regarding this matter:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/aboutus.asp#whyus

8. Battery and earthing kit.

Now I should mention that we usually include a battery, terminals and earthing kit on every quote we do. The battery is not 100% necessary but damn good investment for you, the car and the system if you can budget for it. I’ve left it off this quote because of budgetary restraints however if you wish to read a little more about them then see here:

Earthing kit

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/faq.asp#38

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/ground_2.jpg

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/ground_3.jpg

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/ground_4.jpg

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/ground_5.pdf


These are some of the more common batteries we install:

Optima D34

http://www.optimabatteries.com.au

Odyssey 1200MJT

http://www.odysseybatteries.com

Stinger SPV44

http://www.stingerelectronics.com

For photos see here:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/photogallery_int.asp#interest8_4

9. Sound Processing and tuning ability.

The more processing abilities a system has, the better we can tune it to sound. This is what a car's response curve usually looks like when viewed without any processing:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/images/interest_244.jpg

We generally tune systems to a certain response curve known as a Fletcher-Munson curve. Theoretically this is the response curve that closest matches our ears sensitivity. Put simply; the closer we can get the system's response to this the better it will sound to your ears. This is what the curves look like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher-Munson

And this is what the car's response looks like when tuned:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/images/interest_245.jpg

To get this we need to carefully test and measure various aspects in order to achieve the best possible sound as there are many sonic anomalies and audio phenomenon to overcome. We overcome these issues not only with our experience and ears, but also using all matter of instruments such as real time analyzers, oscilloscopes, dB meters and many more. The bigger the systems EQ the better.

10. Amplifier.

When choosing an amplifier to power your speakers there are more stats than just power output you need to think about before you splash out your money on an amp that will underperform. For more information about which amplifier specs to look out for, see here:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/faq.asp#21

I have chosen the ARC Audio KS125.4Mini because of their tiny size and high performance. Read about them here:

www.arcaudio.com

11. Safety equipment and gadgets.

Although not required by law, we usually recommend a small first aid kit and fire extinguisher. Remember though if you wish to compete with the system at the sound offs you'll require a fire extinguisher. Of course both these are purely optional and can be added to the quote for $45 (extinguisher) and $65 (first aid kit). There are also various other gadgets you can add too such as volt meters, dB meters, small fridges and all matter of other devices. Please let me know if you need further information on these.

12. Reverse camera and mirror monitor.

This is another safety addition we recommend if the budget can stretch to cover it. It involves the mounting of a small camera at the rear of the vehicle and a mirror / monitor that mounts over the top of the existing internal mirror. During the install is the best time to mount this because you already have the car apart for running cables. For further information see here:

ClearView CCD120HD camera

http://www.mongoose.com.au/reversing-systems/clearview-cameras/ccd120hd.aspx

ClearView LCD600M monitor

http://www.mongoose.com.au/reversing-systems/clearview-monitors/lcd600m.aspx

When mounting these components the custom treatment isn't spared either. Click here for more info:

http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/photogallery_int.asp#interest8_10



This is the reply from Marty regarding my email to him

[G-rig]

Anyone know if the Audiocontrol LC6i can use the signal sensing to switch on when connected to the factory HU, then allow it to use the 'remote trigger' output to switch on an amp like the Alpine PDX.5?

I'm quite like the price of this unit combined with the fact that it has an optional sub control trim pot. Wouldn't be able to deal with simply adjusting 'bass' level from the HU without inidividual sub control!

Yeah that would work and handy to turn on amps that don't have their own signal sensing turnon feature, like the arc minis have.

[defaultx]

Yeh Marty definitely knows his stuff and one of my best mates works in his shop - can definitely vouch for them and they will be doing my MK6.

Mate if you're interested I'm selling a double DIN Pioneer touch-screen with in built 6-stacker. If you're interested PM me.

Cheers!

[Pharkus]

GBJ-R32, hah yeah that's one of the many many reasons why I am trying to avoid another sound install in my current car. $3k seems like a lot but it isn't when you really want to get into the quality stuff.

I went through a guy called Chad Installs down in Melbourne for my set up. I haven't been to any others but the installation took him all day on my old car (sub, amp, front splits, head unit and capacitor). This did not include sound deadening at all and was just a front speaker upgrade as well. I'd be keen to see progressive pics of your install as you go if you do pull the trigger. You never know, I may look into this once I get bored of cosmetic/mechanical upgrades.

[GBJ-R32]

yea so true that 3k isnt much. but i do want to keep some mulla in the account to live off. being a uni student dosnt help.

so do you guys think i should buy my items through marty or purchase them on my own and save abit of money which then i can use on other products throught the build.

[Pharkus]

You'd have to do a fair bit of searching around to get a couple hundred bucks saving, maybe. I'd just make sure that the prices that he charges you aren't ridiculous then go with him (I'm more for building a relationship with people that help me out than looking to screw down to the last cent). Just remember that it has to be worthwhile for him to be spending at least a whole day on your car for an install and if you go back a second time with your next car he may be more forward with a better price etc. *shrug

It's a bit of a trade off between getting stuff all from the one place (if anything goes wrong you don't have to bother about taking that part off, sending it back to whoever you bought it from etc., if you can that is) or having to deal with multiple parties.

[schoona]

Get a Capristo :P

[GBJ-R32]

thats true about r'ships and all but i guess ill just need to have a good chat 1 on 1 with him to discuss the issues i guess

[GBJ-R32]

Get a Capristo :P

LOL umm 3k not 7K

[G-rig]

That's a great reply from Marty (didn't display the whole message before on tapatalk) - very comprehensive.

It's true that 3k doesn't go that far with car audio especially once you get a quality install.

I was in the situation where i'd spent a bit on speakers but couldn't really get the most out of them so was experimenting with various gear and setups. Better if you don't have to though but I would rather spend a bit more and have something that impresses than to spend 1/2 to 2/3's as much and have it sounding ok to good. Still law of diminishing returns after you've done the main part of the system though.


Get a Capristo :P

You still need good tunes, you'd get bored after a while (although it may be a long while LOL).

Still don't know if i'll do anything till i sort out the MDI niggle (gaps in the tracks).

[VTECMACHINE]

What size speakers are in the Golf GTI's (MKV) doors. I heard it comes with a 10 speaker system, is it any good?
I know with Audi's its a mission to take the stock headunit out of it, and have heard that it causes problems with other electronics, and the steering wheel controls. Is this true? I have a heap of AVI gear that is in my current car, and I want to import it to the GTI when I get it. Just want to know what I can run.
Can you use like a Clarion/Pioneer or whatever double din DVD headunit thingo?

[GBJ-R32]

Vtec im no expert at this by far but ill try to answer this the best i can

the golf mkv have 3 ways in the front 6.5" + 4" + tweet check out the focals 165 A3 as they are a exact swap for the fronts.
the back is only 2 way dont have to much on these as not many ppl actually change them.

10 speakers is correct being 6 at the front and 4 at the back but its hopeless, the honda accord euro 04 model had 10x the quality then these have and thats a 40k car compared to a 65K car.

also any double din will work but you will need too also buy a few extra plugs and also do the VAG to get it running from the steering wheel controls. (but this can be done) just an extra cost


im sure the experts will answer your questions better though

[VTECMACHINE]

Thanks for that.

VAG? you lost me there.

I think i'll pay MetroSound in Artamon a visit.

[GBJ-R32]

also pay Marty a vist at FHRX a visit.

where about do you live?

[VTECMACHINE]

I live near chatswood.

[GBJ-R32]

thats alright let us know how the talks go? or if you need more info

[G-rig]

What size speakers are in the Golf GTI's (MKV) doors. I heard it comes with a 10 speaker system, is it any good?
I know with Audi's its a mission to take the stock headunit out of it, and have heard that it causes problems with other electronics, and the steering wheel controls. Is this true? I have a heap of AVI gear that is in my current car, and I want to import it to the GTI when I get it. Just want to know what I can run.
Can you use like a Clarion/Pioneer or whatever double din DVD headunit thingo?

GBJ-R32 covered most of it, the MKV sound system is very disappointing for a 40-60k car, but i've noticed the MK6 sounds better with just a 2-way setup now having the woofer in the conventional location front of the doors.

Not all speakers would fit in and you need to put a 3-way set in, the midrange may only fit a 3" in most brands but i had 8" Dyns in the doors but the 7" were fine too.

Connects2 make good modules to enable steering wheel buttons to work like OEM with no delay for most head units, not really cheap though but i'd want the buttons working personally.

[VTECMACHINE]

Crap... Alright. i'll see what I can keep. I'll be able to keep the sub and amps, and tweeters. May have to swap the speakers.

[G-rig]

I've still got my BitOne left over from the last system - may sell it if anyone here is keen.

Also have an amp rack that goes around the left hand side of the spare that can fit 3 arc mini's or would probably fit one amp like the PDX. The floor is lower on the GTI so wont be able to use it.

[GBJ-R32]

G-Rig is the BitOne any good??? what exactly does it do?

[G-rig]

Hi GBJ-R32, the Bitone is a great piece of gear but still felt the sound could have been better with an after market HU over the stock signal. Mind you this is after i had 3 amps, 3-way Dyns and a 10" sub and the comments are probably audiophile ones chasing that last few percent.

There was something to do with the mids being a bit fuzzy i couldnt put my finger on. The locations of the stock MKV speakers are pretty bad so I'd recommend a processor for EQ and Time Alignment.

I would still chose a factory HU + BitOne > Aftermarket HU only in the MKV, and Marty is right all the other bits do add up.

I sold the BitOne and as the MK6 2-ways are in a better location hopefully it will still sound quite good without it (stock for stock already sounds better). I also wanted to cut down on the amount of gear and RCA's and fit everything in easiliy and was getting pissed off with trims not clipping back in properly.

My two Arc's will fit under the passenger seat with the removal of the foot duct. Just want to keep it simple this time but the OEM HU signal straight into the ARC amps (using high level/speaker line input) works very well with no noise or hiss, and being a hatch there isn't a huge delay on the sub anyway.

It's not hard to go over budget quickly with this stuff but usually worth spending a bit more than a bit less.. Perhaps ask for a price for the DLS 3-ways, should be about 1k?