New MK6 GTI

[Ankush]

Hello All,

Now that i have had my car for a month, was thinkning of going down the engine retune path. I am quite novice in this department as my last car was a Honda Accord with no mods.

I was looking at various program like APR or Revo, just want some guidance as to how to proceed.

I am also open to other suggestions that should be looked at prior to ECU tune.

[Lima]

Where are you based?

There are a couple of other options to consider, as well, including GIAC and Unitronic (IIRC).

I haven't had an after-market tuned VAG car for a while now, but have driven quite a few the general advice still remains--most products are pretty close to each other in terms of performance, they just go about it in slightly different ways. So you want to try and drive as many cars with tunes as possible if you can. Some tunes come on boost early, other have more in the top end, for example. Speak to the various resellers and go with the one that is most convenient or gives you the best customer service.

I think most of the re-flash tuners can also give you trial programs that last for a few hours and then reset back to "stock". I would seek clarification on what they define "stock" to mean. That is, does “stock” mean completely back to factory settings with no vendor software residing on the ECU, or does “stock” mean a flash is still on your ECU but with an OEM-like tune?

Good luck and try not to get sucked into any chip warz, haha!

[saad]

Bluefin uses the stock tune, as does APR, which has been confirmed by them

Bluefin is great value for money.

BUT, the APR tune does drive noticeably better, with more mid range, which is why I asked superchips to tweak my file.

But is it more than twice the price better? Prob not. But if you can afford it, go with the APR.

[Ankush]

I am based in Sydney so probably could go with either brand. The problem I don't know many people with engine retunes. Demo software sounds like a good idea.

[defaultx]

Be careful with the demo software mate, I heard of a bloke who got the demo software and then bought the real deal and it ended up screwing up his ECU...don't know if this was an unlucky one off or an ongoing issue?

I know MasterKevin has the Bluefin and raves about it...I was thinking Bluefin for my MK6 because they give you the unit to load the tune and return to stock before a service...I'll be interested in which way you go and would love to check it out once you have done it :)

[AP]

I would have to say evolve tecnik, Ive meet the owner, who is from Germany, he is very switched...
www.Cityperformancecentre.com
are the Sydney dealers...

[Lima]

...The problem I don't know many people with engine retunes...

Well, you're in the right place! :p

Okay, there may not be many with tuned Mk6s just yet, but there'll be heaps of Mk5s. As a general rule the basic performance characteristics and driveability should remain reasonably constant and provide enough info to help you come to a decision.

Time for a GTG perhaps? Actually there is a dyno day in Hornsby this weekend, maybe you could get along to that, would be good for a baseline run in any case.

http://www.vwgolf.net.au/showthread.php?471-[NSW]-Sydney-VW-Audi-Dyno-Day-17th-April
(Note the location has changed to Hornsby)

[Paolo]

take Lima's advice, its the best without getting into a 'which tuners better' debate
but if anything i would be more careful with bluefin as an option since there's no real local support whilst the others do
just a thought

[saad]

Why would you need support with the bluefin? Theres not really much to go wrong Also bluefin support is just a phone call or email away, with the guys who actually make the thing. The local support for the others tuners is just re-sellers.

And they will customise your maps for you if you want.

[MasterKevin]

Lol the support through bluefin is amazing. Im not even kidding i was emailing there staff as if we were talking on msn.

Instant replies in there operating hours. Ive never experienced since good communication before.

Hence why i stuck with bluefin stage 2 instead of going APR stage 2.

I really think people underestimate bluefin lol

Just my opinion :)

[HCGTI]

Most tunes from the various companies offer very similar performance.
don't get sucked in by marketing hype and figures.

go with the one that is closest to you and one that you feel will give you the best support SHOULD anything go wrong. (in most cases nothing does go wrong)

happy hunting. lol

[MasterKevin]

Yup stick to real figures and peoples actually thoughts and opinions not what a certain Company representative tells. Even better yet if you know a few guys that have tunes. Drive there cars and decide for yourself ;)

Kevin

[Pharkus]

If they have a test car, do a run with your butt dyno to see which tune you like =)

[G-rig]

Ha doesn't take long if you got a turbo euro to go down the retune path.

I'm trying not to think about it now but you could just get a 6hr trial like APR offers. Would be hard to go back to stock though.

The dynos and claimed figures are usually quite an accurate indication.

[MasterKevin]

I drove a stock mk5 gti 2 days ago and all i can say is ..... lol... :P

Once you tune you wont go back :P

[JohnA]

this thread is right down my alley as i too am researching which way to go.

The bluefin is looking very tempting

[onpole01]

I have bluefin on my MKV-I love it as it's a huge improvement performance wise but without any surprises-ie your girlfriend/ partner/boyfriend whatever aren't gonna freak out when they get in it. Bluefin I understand can go back to original stock not a 'new stock'. Bluefin is DIY which is convenient and it's very easy to do-would be good too if you're going to remove the flash and take back to stock each time you take back to the dealer. Anyways, that's been my experience of it.

But definitely as the guys are saying once you chip you won't go back hahaha!

[Paolo]

not sure why people say they 'chip' it, its still the standard ecu just reflashed...
anyway options available are:
- GIAC
- APR
- Bluefin
- Unitronic
- Evolve Tecnik
- REVO
All reputable, all around the same gains so just go nuts with whichever option you go for

[onpole01]

Yes sometimes I use the word 'chip' it should be 'flash'

[MasterKevin]

not sure why people say they 'chip' it, its still the standard ecu just reflashed...
anyway options available are:
- GIAC
- APR
- Bluefin
- Unitronic
- Evolve Tecnik
- REVO
All reputable, all around the same gains so just go nuts with whichever option you go for

Yup just stick to one of these and you should be fine :)

It comes down to how much money you willing to spend. And if you can justify spending that much.

And which one you personally prefer the most over the others :)

[JohnA]

Bluefin I understand can go back to original stock not a 'new stock'.

this is a huge bonus if thats the only mod you are going to do and wish to not worry about warranty issues

[G-rig]

not sure why people say they 'chip' it, its still the standard ecu just reflashed...
anyway options available are:
- GIAC
- APR
- Bluefin
- Unitronic
- Evolve Tecnik
- REVO
All reputable, all around the same gains so just go nuts with whichever option you go for

Yeah prob just habbit as the earlier cars like my B5 was a chip (loved driving it away with an extra 40kw, the difference was huge).

[Paolo]

pretty sure most tuners have a method of switching to stock: APR via the cruise control, Bluefin via flash device, GIAC via flash loader, REVO via revo selector, but not sure about the rest thou. Don't think it will be that noticeable between true stock and the tuners version of stock. VW service dealers sure wouldn't be able to tell if you switched to stock and tried for a warranty claim, unless you get the worse case scenario where they actually take the ecu out and run a whole load of tests which is the only way to tell if it has been mucked around with, but that's the WORST case scenario. Sure doesn't help me if i go in with a boost gauge and they drive it to see boost peak at 25psi instead of 12psi! hahahah

[MasterKevin]

pretty sure most tuners have a method of switching to stock: APR via the cruise control, Bluefin via flash device, GIAC via flash loader, REVO via revo selector, but not sure about the rest thou. Don't think it will be that noticeable between true stock and the tuners version of stock. VW service dealers sure wouldn't be able to tell if you switched to stock and tried for a warranty claim, unless you get the worse case scenario where they actually take the ecu out and run a whole load of tests which is the only way to tell if it has been mucked around with, but that's the WORST case scenario. Sure doesn't help me if i go in with a boost gauge and they drive it to see boost peak at 25psi instead of 12psi! hahahah

haha mad respect :P lol

[Ankush]

SO did some ringing around yesterday and here are the prices and locations:

1) APR - $1695 - Mona Vale - Trial Available
2) Evolve Tecnik - $1795 - Ataramon - No Trial
3) REVO - $1200 - Parramatta - No Trial
4) Bluefin: $800 - Mail - No Trial
5) GIAC: $995 - Parramatta - NO Trial

Please feel free to add details for other products.

[Paolo]

4) GIAC - Exoticars (Parramatta) - 96832110

not sure on pricing, tell him i sent you >D

[MasterKevin]

4) GIAC - Exoticars (Parramatta) - 96832110

not sure on pricing, tell him i sent you >D

$995 - GIAC

[Paolo]

thats pricing for the tfsi engine thou, would cost more for the tsi engine

gccorp.com.au supplies bluefin as well

[DracZ]

3) REVO - $1200 - Parramatta - No Trial


What did this include? I got quoted $1499 inc GST for a REVO flash on my 118TSI with the following conditions / maps :

- Stock map
- 95RON map
- 98RON map
- 100RON map
- Anti-theft function
- 30 day money back guarantee
- To switch to any program purchase the module ($300~) / pay them a visit (this is free of charge)

Is $1200 the standard price?

[S&H]

SO did some ringing around yesterday and here are the prices and locations:

1) APR - $1695 - Mona Vale - Trial Available
2) Evolve Tecnik - $1795 - Ataramon - No Trial
3) REVO - $1200 - Parramatta - No Trial
4) Bluefin: $800 - Mail - No Trial

Please feel free to add details for other products.

Just a Heads up on ECU trials.

VW Village does REVO trials. BUT...with APR or REVO, if they don't happen to have your ECU already mapped, you'll have to pay upfront for the tune and get a refund if you don't like it.

In my case, the version of ECU on my GT hasn't been maped before by APR, Derek said that the only way I could get a trial was to pay upfront for the tune and get a refund if I didn't like it. And I would have to leave the car overnight at the workshop, Derek has to courier the ECU to Guy in QLD.

[Ankush]

What did this include? I got quoted $1499 inc GST for a REVO flash on my 118TSI with the following conditions / maps :

- Stock map
- 95RON map
- 98RON map
- 100RON map
- Anti-theft function

- 30 day money back guarantee
- To switch to any program purchase the module ($300~) / pay them a visit (this is free of charge)

Is $1200 the standard price?

Not sure just called and enquired the price. The money back and change of prgrams was mentioned but nothing abt the Antitheft.

[MasterKevin]

thats pricing for the tfsi engine thou, would cost more for the tsi engine

gccorp.com.au supplies bluefin as well

nah its 995 as my mk6 was meant to be the first with the GIAC program :P

but i withdrew at the last second :P :(

[saad]

Just a Heads up on ECU trials.

VW Village does REVO trials. BUT...with APR or REVO, if they don't happen to have your ECU already mapped, you'll have to pay upfront for the tune and get a refund if you don't like it.

In my case, the version of ECU on my GT hasn't been maped before by APR, Derek said that the only way I could get a trial was to pay upfront for the tune and get a refund if I didn't like it. And I would have to leave the car overnight at the workshop, Derek has to courier the ECU to Guy in QLD.

You sure? Maybe this for a MK6 or somethign.

I had an APR trial the other day, didnt pay anything.

[Big Yellow]

nah its 995 as my mk6 was meant to be the first with the GIAC program :P

but i withdrew at the last second :P :(
Why u back out?

[Ankush]

You sure? Maybe this for a MK6 or somethign.

I had an APR trial the other day, didnt pay anything.
How is it

[Paolo]

Why u back out?
^ word

[Lima]

You sure? Maybe this for a MK6 or somethign.

I had an APR trial the other day, didnt pay anything.


I think what S&H is saying is that if a car of the same spec as your own hasn't been flashed before then they effectively need a donor ECU to read the original code etc. Plenty of Mk5 GTIs have been flashed before, so it was no drama for you to get a trial. But perhaps when S&H wanted a trial for his car APR hadn't reflashed a car of the same type before???

You often see Guy from APR posting on various forums asking for people with a new car to get in touch so they can fiddle with their car. I'm guessing that's so they can have an Australia-delivered ECU to use as a baseline.

[G-rig]

I asked the other day and APR said they've done at least 40 new GTI's around the country.

[EWT]

Hi Guys which one is the best price for its price???
is there really much difference between the 5? if not, then bluefin is the best for its price??

1) APR - $1695 - Mona Vale - Trial Available
2) Evolve Tecnik - $1795 - Ataramon - No Trial
3) REVO - $1200 - Parramatta - No Trial
4) Bluefin: $800 - Mail - No Trial
5) GIAC: $995 - Parramatta - NO Trial

[MasterKevin]

Hi Guys which one is the best price for its price???
is there really much difference between the 5? if not, then bluefin is the best for its price??

1) APR - $1695 - Mona Vale - Trial Available
2) Evolve Tecnik - $1795 - Ataramon - No Trial
3) REVO - $1200 - Parramatta - No Trial
4) Bluefin: $800 - Mail - No Trial
5) GIAC: $995 - Parramatta - NO Trial

If you have some friends cars drive them around and see for yourself. IF you choose any of them chances are you will be happy with the result :)

Kevin

[HOTHATCH]

Have a read here http://www.vwgolf.net.au/showthread.php?772-My-Recode-Stage-1-by-HOTHATCH also see www.recode.net.au

Before and after dyno and you don't get locked out of your ecu. Can also be flashed back to standard.

[random]

Hi Guys which one is the best price for its price???
is there really much difference between the 5? if not, then bluefin is the best for its price??

1) APR - $1695 - Mona Vale - Trial Available
2) Evolve Tecnik - $1795 - Ataramon - No Trial
3) REVO - $1200 - Parramatta - No Trial
4) Bluefin: $800 - Mail - No Trial
5) GIAC: $995 - Parramatta - NO Trial

i want to know too... people say they are all the same... but surely bluefin (1/2 the price) can't be just as good as Evolve tecnik or apr!

Maybe Apr or evolve tecnik are not twice as good... but they have got to be better right?

[scotty1991]

well if all they do is retune the stock car.. they are all equal in what is possible, as they will all be retuning the same computer.. guess it just depends who has the best coders and is the least forgiving in their tune (least error margin/tolerance)

however that doesnt take into account that various cars will come with better hardware from the factory and are be able to be pushed further without any other modifications

[nath_mk6]

From my understanding the different tuners are all very similar but they do go about gaining their increases in slightly different ways hence the variations in power output both in torque and kw. Beyond the STD range mentioned there are also a number if other, less widely used in Australia, tuners available such as ottenger and abt that pull good numbers.

In the end it comes down to what you're after and what your willing to spend/long term plans for he car. If all you're after is some power gains but nothing off the hook then for the money bluefin could be your match, if you're looking at more of a back in seat push then you may want to look at revo, tecknik, apr etc as they're considered more 'hardcore' tunes in comparrison. There is also the thinking on support and warranty, with some tuners not having local support is this an issue for you or are you happy with the reports from MK as mitigating this risk. As for warrjlanty from memory one of the tuners offer a warranty if their tune causes issues, can't remember which and I may be mistaken on this.

Ultimately it's a personal preference, look at your budget and work from there. As MK has pointed out try and drive cars with different flashes or get trials if possible.

[S&H]

From my understanding the different tuners are all very similar but they do go about gaining their increases in slightly different ways hence the variations in power output both in torque and kw. Beyond the STD range mentioned there are also a number if other, less widely used in Australia, tuners available such as ottenger and abt that pull good numbers.

In the end it comes down to what you're after and what your willing to spend/long term plans for he car. If all you're after is some power gains but nothing off the hook then for the money bluefin could be your match, if you're looking at more of a back in seat push then you may want to look at revo, tecknik, apr etc as they're considered more 'hardcore' tunes in comparrison. There is also the thinking on support and warranty, with some tuners not having local support is this an issue for you or are you happy with the reports from MK as mitigating this risk. As for warrjlanty from memory one of the tuners offer a warranty if their tune causes issues, can't remember which and I may be mistaken on this.

Ultimately it's a personal preference, look at your budget and work from there. As MK has pointed out try and drive cars with different flashes or get trials if possible.


AFAIR - It is Oettinger that provides a warranty. I think I read somewhere that their tunes are done by APR.