Is it worth it to get the R or just get the GTI?

[dev17a]

Been contemplating of getting either an R or a GTI. Missus got a 118TSI and when took a GTI for a test drive, it felt rather similar to 118TSI on Sydney roads (but for sure the GTI will handle better on any twisty National Park roads at midnight when there is little traffic and little chance of meeting a law enforcer :cool:). What do you think?

[Frenchie]

Umm tough one but what don't you go for an R32 ? There is a good one that will be advertized very shortly >D

I would say R purely for the awd.

[Cam]

Personally I don't think you could make a final decision until you've driven both
:)

A few members on here have been fortunate enough to drive the R, so perhaps they could give you some feedback.

[Shonen]

Umm tough one but what don't you go for an R32 ? There is a good one that will be advertized very shortly >D

I would say R purely for the awd.

Selling the R soon Frenchie ? hehe

[Frenchie]

haha not sure we'll see what destiny awaits for the Frenchman.

[S&H]

Been contemplating of getting either an R or a GTI. Missus got a 118TSI and when took a GTI for a test drive, it felt rather similar to 118TSI on Sydney roads (but for sure the GTI will handle better on any twisty National Park roads at midnight when there is little traffic and little chance of meeting a law enforcer :cool:). What do you think?

I have driven both - if I had to choose between the GTI and the R and I could afford one - I'd pick the R.

The R is more aggressive and a whole lot more fun to drive. And by the time you mod the GTI to the standard of the R, you'd have probably spent more than the difference in price between them.

[random]

I have driven both - if I had to choose between the GTI and the R and I could afford one - I'd pick the R.

The R is more aggressive and a whole lot more fun to drive. And by the time you mod the GTI to the standard of the R, you'd have probably spent more than the difference in price between them.

There won't be any point modding the mk6 gti to the standard of the R. It is a different story for mk5, as R32 and GTI there is a big difference (no turbo). While Mk6 Gti and R are a very similar car apart from AWD. So people modding gti are the people who bought the gti already.

So when the R comes out, i don't think many people would be buying a new gti to mod it (major modding anyway), when like you said can just get an R.

[S&H]

There won't be any point modding the mk6 gti to the standard of the R. It is a different story for mk5, as R32 and GTI there is a big difference (no turbo). While Mk6 Gti and R are a very similar car apart from AWD. So people modding gti are the people who bought the gti already.

So when the R comes out, i don't think many people would be buying a new gti to mod it (major modding anyway), when like you said can just get an R.

There is still a major difference bet the R and Mk6 GTI and it is the engine.
The R uses the same (proven) engine as the Pirelli/S3. While the Mk6 uses the new EA888 engine.
The R also has bigger brakes and probably improved suspension.

[G-rig]

I just got the GTI..

I'm fairly impatient but also didn't really want to spend that much again after the R32 considering the (power) mods didn't give too many gains (and I didn't think the car itself was worth the extra either). Different story for the R, but you could end up spending more if you modded that as well. Depends on your budget but the GTI is still a lot of fun and is fairly similar in most ways most of the time.

There is no cam follower issue with the new EA888 as well as getting more gains out of it and more economical. The R/Pirelli/S3 has more lag, however more potential power with the bigger turbo too. Depends how much you need for the streets.

There are plenty of discussions on www.vwwatercooled.org.au about the R and there are still no prices released. I've also heard there will be no corporate discount (at least for a while) on the R so also took that into consideration as i got quite a good deal on the GTI. I would normally have waited but not fond of a 4-6 month wait either way and this came up so only had to wait a week.

Agree it's not worth spending too much modding the GTI but then again doesn't sound like the R will be that cheap if it's at R32 prices, plus all options will attract luxury car tax over 57k.

[dev17a]

The salesperson said there is no corporate disc on the R, well at least for a while. and the GTI is now on special for all cars in stock delivered by end of June. So, the GTI including corp disc is already $4k-5k cheaper than RRP right now.

But then if financial consideration weighs heavily in the decision making, the GTI is clearly the winner.

[S&H]

The salesperson said there is no corporate disc on the R, well at least for a while. and the GTI is now on special for all cars in stock delivered by end of June. So, the GTI including corp disc is already $4k-5k cheaper than RRP right now.

But then if financial consideration weighs heavily in the decision making, the GTI is clearly the winner.

If cost is a factor then you could:

1. Buy a low km Pirelli or MkV GTI.
2. Wait till the new Polo GTI comes out.

I am guessing that the new Polo GTI will be the the most fun for your buck if it retains what the current Polo GTI has in the fun dept.

[chugga44]

If cost is a factor then you could:

1. Buy a low km Pirelli or MkV GTI.
2. Wait till the new Polo GTI comes out.

I am guessing that the new Polo GTI will be the the most fun for you buck if it retains what the current Polo GTI has in the fun dept.

completely agree.

[Lima]

Salespeople were saying there'd be no corp discount on GTIs too, and well, look how that turned out, haha. I guess it really depends on how sharply VGA price the Golf R, especially compared to the S3. If the R is mid 50s as we keep hearing then you'd expect discounts might be pretty slim, as the S3 is priced another $10K+ for vanilla spec cars. But then discounts of $10K+ on S3s are pretty obtainable too. It's all swings and roundabouts really.

Cam's advice is best. Drive the GTI and R and see for yourself. In regards to the Mk5 GTI v S3 in our drive there is quite a bit of difference really, in terms of daily use and the differing engines. If you can't wait to test drive an R just go to your local Audi dealer and get some time in an S3. There will be differences between the R and S3 I guess, so use that experience as a guide only, but the engine response/lag etc should be the same. The more you drive the cars, the better you will be able to decide.

[Lima]

I am guessing that the new Polo GTI will be the the most fun for your buck if it retains what the current Polo GTI has in the fun dept.

+1

The new Pogo looks fantastic IMO and its performance should allow it to embarrass much more expensive cars.

[Frenchie]

+ 2

I can't wait to see the Polo R ! now that is going to be a hoot >D

http://www.worldcarfans.com/110050425989/volkswagen-polo-r-version-due-in-2012


http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/06/volkswagen-r-gmbh-reportedly-working-on-polo-r/

[dev17a]

+1

The new Pogo looks fantastic IMO and its performance should allow it to embarrass much more expensive cars.

Bang for Your Buck!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm7nXDyNbaM

[Tinto]

The new Polo feels like what the Golf (in MK 1/2 phases) used to be - the heritage of those two generations are why I own a MK5!
New Polo model will be a future icon if the quality is there. 1.4TSI engine is a cracker, and these have DSG too, right? Great package.

Probably the only small car I'd drive with pride (and not necessarily have to have a GTI model).
If push came to shove and I needed to recover some $, at the moment I think that would be the car I'd want to move to.
I'm looking forward to a test drive to see if I'm on the money with what I currently just *feel* about it...


Sorry for the tangent... I'm pretty keen on the Polo. :)

[G-rig]

+ 2

I can't wait to see the Polo R ! now that is going to be a hoot >D


There aren't really many reasons to get one over a Polo GTI and it's not AWD anyway. You'd be paying for a fancy spoiler kit and R badge. Like others have said if i came with an option pack standard it would be ok but don't see the point when you could retune the GTI anyway. A 1.8 or 2.0L turbo with 6spd DSG would be better IMO.

Although should be a hoot for sure and AWD probably makes small cars more fun.


Bang for Your Buck!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm7nXDyNbaM

That's a cool vid, the Golf GTI should really have come with those DRL's!

[S&H]

The new Polo feels like what the Golf (in MK 1/2 phases) used to be - the heritage of those two generations are why I own a MK5!
New Polo model will be a future icon if the quality is there. 1.4TSI engine is a cracker, and these have DSG too, right? Great package.

Probably the only small car I'd drive with pride (and not necessarily have to have a GTI model).
If push came to shove and I needed to recover some $, at the moment I think that would be the car I'd want to move to.
I'm looking forward to a test drive to see if I'm on the money with what I currently just *feel* about it...


Sorry for the tangent... I'm pretty keen on the Polo. :)

You are not selling your Pirelli to get the Polo are you? :(

[AP]

If you are decieding between the Golf R and GTI, I would buy the Golf R, did a sneeky drive into Volkwagen Australia and had a look and it's a hot looking car!!
Yes it's the same as the S3, but it is far better looking..

[Tinto]

S&H - Nope but if i had to do that - the new Polo would be my only serious choice and - performance hit aside - not a huge step down in quality.
The test drive would only be for me to confirm / deny all the gushing I do about a car that I've only ever seen pictures of!

Having owned a 1.4 GT Sport before the Pirelli, I know how much more fun it is driving that car/engine fast than it is driving my GTI slow.

[random]

If you are decieding between the Golf R and GTI, I would buy the Golf R, did a sneeky drive into Volkwagen Australia and had a look and it's a hot looking car!!
Yes it's the same as the S3, but it is far better looking..

where is volkswagen australia?

[AP]

Mascot across from barlow world!!


where is volkswagen australia?

[G-rig]

Having owned a 1.4 GT Sport before the Pirelli, I know how much more fun it is driving that car/engine fast than it is driving my GTI slow.

What about vs driving your GTI fast?

As far as tuning potential, you still wouldn't get as much power out of the twincharge as the GTI etc?

It's good to have more power in reserve than a small motor running full tilt? I assume your point is some cars feel (and sound) like they are going faster than they are.

[random]

Mascot across from barlow world!!

oh cool thanks ap, it is only 5 minutes away, i think i might go for a drive (not tonight of course, i will get arrested lol)

[burgs]

It all comes down to what you are looking for in the car and to what extent you plan on modifying and optioning it up. I believe it is very easy to get a GTI into the .:R pricing terriroty with a few options. I would probably pay the extra couple of grand over a opted up GTI for the .:R, as you are starting off with a better base should you decide to modify it and chase power further down the track :)

[Tinto]

What about vs driving your GTI fast?

As far as tuning potential, you still wouldn't get as much power out of the twincharge as the GTI etc?

It's good to have more power in reserve than a small motor running full tilt? I assume your point is some cars feel (and sound) like they are going faster than they are.

Yep I think that's about it.
You can wring the 1.4's neck yet it delivers instant torque and won't get you into *too* much trouble.
But it is fun.

if I wring the GTI's neck I quickly run out of talent.
So much power in reserve that you need to nurse it around a corner where you would be feeding on the power in the GT.
There's something satisfying about feeling like you are maxxing it out rather than holding back.
You get to keep your right foot in it for longer, and that just *feels* good.

[bwen]

I think I know where you're coming from Tinto, I still love pushing my high-revving Honda at 9000rpm on the weekends :D

[G-rig]

Yeah it's pretty fun getting up the high revving engines.

The R32 hooks everyone with the sound which sounds fast too.

Just nice having a bit bigger engine and easier on the highway etc. Great technology in the twin chargers not sure how long they would last though.

[S&H]

Yeah it's pretty fun getting up the high revving engines.

The R32 hooks everyone with the sound which sounds fast too.

Just nice having a bit bigger engine and easier on the highway etc. Great technology in the twin chargers not sure how long they would last though.

Separately, the technology for both super and turbo chargers were invented in the early part of the 20th century, 1902 and 1905 respectively. The first supercharged car was built and driven by Louis Renault. While the first turbocharged car was built in 1962. So both technologies are pretty mature.

Even making them work together is also fairly mature. Twin charging isn't a new concept that VW invented.
Nissan had a Limited Edition Micra-based car with twin chargers in the late 80s and they are quite sort after today.

http://www.j-garage.com/nissan/march/st.htm

[S&H]

I too understand where Tinto is coming from.
If the car isn't fun to drive - it doesn't fit the original spirit of the (Mk1) GTI. i.e. what is the point of it?
The MKV brought that all back. The MkVI has lost some of it. The new R still preserves it.
The current Polo GTI has gobs of it.

[G-rig]

Maybe the MK1's are being hyped up a bit, IDK as I've never driven one but the MK5 & MK6 aren't as different as you are making out.

I know what you mean in terms of more refinement and sound proofing in the MK6 but feels more like a quality euro like the Audi's i guess. I don't see how the MK6 R would be much different to the MK6 GTI as far as those factors, and it weighs more so is further away from the MK1 again. If anything the R32 was more of a cult classic with the sound and more fun than the new R so not sure how it preserves it.

[mshl1979]

I'm Tinto there....

In my old car... with the trottle down and flinging it around corners... was so much fun... but still kept in in legal street speeds... do the same with the Pirelli and I'll no lose my license in a heart beat...

No driving to and from work I feel like I'm barely touching the trottle.....

[G-rig]

C'mon guys, what ever happened to 'whos got the biggest' or most kw? We should all get 206 GTI's, Meganes or DC2Rs!

I can still get up the GTI a fair bit without doing excessive speeds but is very easy to speed/accelerate in it compared to my R32.

I always thought the the power you start getting with a tuned K04+ is more suited to the track.

[mshl1979]

Cheap EG6 with a B18 swap... fang around in that... or an EK9 with a B18 swap...

[Lima]

Maybe the MK1's are being hyped up a bit...

They are to a degree, and they are light years from the cars we drive today.

But, put yourself back 30 years ago and try and remember what everyone was driving at the time. That's when the Mk1 etc begin to make much more sense. They are fun to drive. Not sure how much of that is intrinsic to the car itself, or how much is because it is such contrast to modern cars. I suspect it's a bit of both.

[S&H]

They are to a degree, and they are light years from the cars we drive today.

But, put yourself back 30 years ago and try and remember what everyone was driving at the time. That's when the Mk1 etc begin to make much more sense. They are fun to drive. Not sure how much of that is intrinsic to the car itself, or how much is because it is such contrast to modern cars. I suspect it's a bit of both.

The question to ask would be "What are the factors that make a car fun to drive?".

1. Low Curb weight? Does this determine chuckability?
2. Power to weight ratio?
3. Close gearing?
4. Torque range? (e.g. Euros provide full torque at low revs while the Japs do it at higher revs)
5. Low/high Centre of gravity?
6. etc, etc

[G-rig]

Pretty good list, I'd add:

7. Good handling/grip
8. Quality interior/fit and finish.

Also a fun track car may not be a fun daily driver and vice-versa.

[Jig]

[QUOTE=S&H;26372]The question to ask would be "What are the factors that make a car fun to drive?".

The marrying sounds of the engine and the exhaust. This is the first factor I am usually tempted with in a car. Once I am happy with the sound, I then start paying attention to the other qualities that make the car fun.

I like both the MK6 GTI and R but I would be more inclined to go for the MK6 R.

[Tinto]

C'mon guys, what ever happened to 'whos got the biggest' or most kw?

It is the grass-is-greener concept.
Once you've got a taste of it, it becomes less important / desirable.
Moreso when you realise the opportunities to really use that power are few and far between. :)
(and expensive if you consider track days or speeding fines...)

My 200SX is great fun on the track, but quite shit on the street.
And given I spend my (10 minute, yes I'm a lazy environmental vandal) commute in busy traffic, it seems absurd to be pushing so much power in the Pirelli when a small-capacity twin-charged Polo would more than satisfy the 0-60km/h sprint! :>

I'm not down on the Pirelli at all - it is a beautiful daily driver. Just a little overpowered now...
Stage 1 on it was enough. :O

[zz2]

Separately, the technology for both super and turbo chargers were invented in the early part of the 20th century, 1902 and 1905 respectively. The first supercharged car was built and driven by Louis Renault. While the first turbocharged car was built in 1962. So both technologies are pretty mature.

Even making them work together is also faily mature. Twin charging isn't a new concept that VW invented.
Nissan had a Limited Edition Micra-based car with twin chargers in the late 80s and they are quite sort after today.

http://www.j-garage.com/nissan/march/st.htm

not to mention all 2-stroke diesel engines are super and turbo charged. infact alot of modern big diesels are twin charged and are very reliable.

only issue i see with our cars over time is the millions of plastic parts from coolent lines to sensors failing from deteriated plastics

[S&H]

It is the grass-is-greener concept.
Once you've got a taste of it, it becomes less important / desirable.
Moreso when you realise the opportunities to really use that power are few and far between. :)
(and expensive if you consider track days or speeding fines...)

My 200SX is great fun on the track, but quite shit on the street.
And given I spend my (10 minute, yes I'm a lazy environmental vandal) commute in busy traffic, it seems absurd to be pushing so much power in the Pirelli when a small-capacity twin-charged Polo would more than satisfy the 0-60km/h sprint! :>

I'm not down on the Pirelli at all - it is a beautiful daily driver. Just a little overpowered now...
Stage 1 on it was enough. :O

Did your tune get rid of the lag?

[G-rig]

The marrying sounds of the engine and the exhaust. This is the first factor I am usually tempted with in a car. Once I am happy with the sound, I then start paying attention to the other qualities that make the car fun.

I like both the MK6 GTI and R but I would be more inclined to go for the MK6 R.

I agree with your there Jig, the sound makes it fun to drive as long as there is enough power for the weight as well.

The Golf R won't sound as good as the R32 so didn't see the point of it personally.

[S&H]

I agree with your there Jig, the sound makes it fun to drive as long as there is enough power for the weight as well.

The Golf R won't sound as good as the R32 so didn't see the point of it personally.

Don't judge the R till you've heard one. It ain't bad and you can hear and feel it from within the cabin, unlike the stock R32 where you have to have your windows down to hear it.

[G-rig]

Don't judge the R till you've heard one. It ain't bad and you can hear and feel it from within the cabin, unlike the stock R32 where you have to have your windows down to hear it.

That's promising, and did sound good in the videos.

Personally i was annoyed that the R32 sounded much better from outside the car and much different when sitting behind the wheel.




It is the grass-is-greener concept.
Once you've got a taste of it, it becomes less important / desirable.
Moreso when you realise the opportunities to really use that power are few and far between. :)
(and expensive if you consider track days or speeding fines...)

My 200SX is great fun on the track, but quite shit on the street.
And given I spend my (10 minute, yes I'm a lazy environmental vandal) commute in busy traffic, it seems absurd to be pushing so much power in the Pirelli when a small-capacity twin-charged Polo would more than satisfy the 0-60km/h sprint! :>

I'm not down on the Pirelli at all - it is a beautiful daily driver. Just a little overpowered now...
Stage 1 on it was enough. :O

I thought that may have happened and bj didn't see the point of so much power for the street in his pirelli either. Same thing would apply for the R/S3 once you finished modding it and you could lose your license easily. If I had a pirelli/R/S3 I'd just get Stage 1 (& maybe an intake) and I'd be done.

It's just adding addictive modding but won't be doing too much more to mine as it's fast enough for what I need.

A daily polo would be cool but I don't know if I'd sell your pirelli to get one.

[Tinto]

Did your tune get rid of the lag?

Most definitely.
On stage 1 (I had bluefin before jumping to APR for Stage 2+), the car felt like it had a nice amount of low down torque, with a great push up top. When I switched back to stock I had to use the accelerator so much more to get the thing moving. I had never noticed the lag before then as it was tuned from about 1500km and it was a new car to me.

But go from tuned -> stock and it is alarming that is how they are sold. It feels like something is wrong when you're used to having the power band extended down into lower RPM.

On stage 2+ it is much the same down low as stage 1 in terms of power (a good thing if you enjoy things like traction), with a relentless push up top.

[S&H]

Most definitely.
On stage 1 (I had bluefin before jumping to APR for Stage 2+), the car felt like it had a nice amount of low down torque, with a great push up top. When I switched back to stock I had to use the accelerator so much more to get the thing moving. I had never noticed the lag before then as it was tuned from about 1500km and it was a new car to me.

But go from tuned -> stock and it is alarming that is how they are sold. It feels like something is wrong when you're used to having the power band extended down into lower RPM.

On stage 2+ it is much the same down low as stage 1 in terms of power (a good thing if you enjoy things like traction), with a relentless push up top.

Damn! My wallet didn't want to hear all that.

Thanks for the info. :)

[iBoost]

It comes down to your budget and what you want the car for.

I went for the GTI as we just bought a house and although I could have extended to the R I didn't feel it was necessary. I think I'll get 90% of the fun factor out of the GTI and when I get bored I'll throw some APR at it. Plus my wife will be driving it a lot of the time so didn't see the point in spending extra at this time.

The R is still growing on me, as it seems a little more subdued to me than the GTI with it's red striped grill etc. I'm sure it looks more aggressive in the flesh, I'll just have to wait to see one.

[dev17a]

It comes down to your budget and what you want the car for.

I went for the GTI as we just bought a house and although I could have extended to the R I didn't feel it was necessary. I think I'll get 90% of the fun factor out of the GTI and when I get bored I'll throw some APR at it. Plus my wife will be driving it a lot of the time so didn't see the point in spending extra at this time.

The R is still growing on me, as it seems a little more subdued to me than the GTI with it's red striped grill etc. I'm sure it looks more aggressive in the flesh, I'll just have to wait to see one.

Budgetwise it all depends if the ASX200 index returns to 5000 level then the R, if it stays as it is GTI, if the sequel of GFC II becomes reality (as what those doom and gloom predictors, hedge fund and other short sellers craving for; these twisted people really need to have track days to enjoy life instead of destroying the hard earned savings of normal people!!), then nothing :rolleyes:

it would be good if these people can short the prices of new Golf GTIs and Rs, so those who are planning to buy can save some money for more mod :)

[elisiX]

I'd been tossing up the idea of canceling my GTI order and waiting for an R.

Having owned some relatively high performance cars in the past (TT Quattro, HSV Coupe), naturally the R appeals more on paper.

Well yesterday I picked up my GTI. My options were to take an almost fully loaded GTI vs a stocker R. Did I make the right move?

Well I wont know for sure without driving the R - but what I can say at this early stage is that the GTI is extremely capable.

The roads were a little damp and at some times completely wet last night, and the R's AWD would have come in handy no doubt.

However for me, for day to day driving in traffic and the odd squirt up inside lane the GTI has bucket loads of power on tap.

In saying that, I have plans to move to an APR Stage 1 setup as soon as possible, which will most likely be followed by Stage II.

A massive + for the GTI IMO, the Carbon Steel specific color and red highlights on the grill - looks sensational in person.

[Pharkus]

I'd been tossing up the idea of canceling my GTI order and waiting for an R.

Having owned some relatively high performance cars in the past (TT Quattro, HSV Coupe), naturally the R appeals more on paper.

Well yesterday I picked up my GTI. My options were to take an almost fully loaded GTI vs a stocker R. Did I make the right move?

Well I wont know for sure without driving the R - but what I can say at this early stage is that the GTI is extremely capable.

The roads were a little damp and at some times completely wet last night, and the R's AWD would have come in handy no doubt.

However for me, for day to day driving in traffic and the odd squirt up inside lane the GTI has bucket loads of power on tap.

In saying that, I have plans to move to an APR Stage 1 setup as soon as possible, which will most likely be followed by Stage II.

A massive + for the GTI IMO, the Carbon Steel specific color and red highlights on the grill - looks sensational in person.

You'd probably never truly know until you have sat in both. Also now that both the GTi and R are both FI engines there is little to separate the tuning potential of the two (as opposed to FI vs N/A previously).

[elisiX]

Absolutely, until I drive both ill never know.

The MK6 GTI with APR StageII bring about 280HP while the R with APR StageI will bring 300+.

The R is obviously the better base the begin with for an AWD footing.

[S&H]

Absolutely, until I drive both ill never know.

The MK6 GTI with APR StageII bring about 280HP while the R with APR StageI will bring 300+.

The R is obviously the better base the begin with for an AWD footing.

Perhaps best not to.

[G-rig]

You could always upgrade later elisiX or after a few years if in fact it is heaps better.. just hard to know if it's worth the extra cost which is still an unknown. Then you got a 6 month wait and like you the speculation and waiting does your head in after a while. In addition once you add a few options it bumps the price up as well as attracts LCT. No doubt it would be good but I'm planning to enjoy the GTI and a few nice mods for a few years.

[amrjon]

or the polo GTI, this review rates it above the MKVI golf GTI
I agree it looks better.
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=21992

[Capercat]

I'm looking forward in driving the Polo GTI, just hope it comes out in 4 doors. I find the Golf chassis is too large for a city runabout.